Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

[stevevw]

Post: Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

How progressive. I think this just shows how realistic the Pope is and how in touch he is. Of course there will be some traditionalists who will take this the wrong way and claim he is the devil in disguise. lol. I think acknowledging that there are secular laws that we as Christians have to live with doesnt mean we accept the act. We already have lived with some laws like civil unions for heterosexuals, divorce, gender ideology, legalisation of drugs, injection rooms, abortion ect for many years. This is just another one added to the list.

 

[JohnDB]

How progressive. I think this just shows how realistic the Pope is and how in touch he is. Of course there will be some traditionalists who will take this the wrong way and claim he is the devil in disguise. lol. I think acknowledging that there are secular laws that we as Christians have to live with doesnt mean we accept the act. We already have lived with some laws like civil unions for heterosexuals, divorce, gender ideology, legalisation of drugs, injection rooms, abortion ect for many years. This is just another one added to the list.

Vatican has already said that this is a cut and paste job. It's not true.
Vatican has not changed its stance on homosexuality. It's still an unacceptable lifestyle.

 

[HIM]

How progressive. I think this just shows how realistic the Pope is and how in touch he is. Of course there will be some traditionalists who will take this the wrong way and claim he is the devil in disguise. lol. I think acknowledging that there are secular laws that we as Christians have to live with doesnt mean we accept the act. We already have lived with some laws like civil unions for heterosexuals, divorce, gender ideology, legalisation of drugs, injection rooms, abortion ect for many years. This is just another one added to the list.

You are mistaken thinking this is a good thing. People of God should always oppose this and the things in the list you compiled. Just because we live with it doesn't mean we are to be silent. Though these things will wax worse regardless. Our complacency will only speed up the process.

 

[JohnDB]

You are mistaken thinking this is a good thing. People of God should always oppose this and the things in the list you compiled. Just because we live with it doesn't mean we are to be silent. Though these things will wax worse regardless. Our complacency will only speed up the process.

Agreed.
Tolerance is miles away from acceptance.

 

[Ophiolite]

Talk of equality is essentially communist in leaning and idealistic.

You have something against ideals? And equality? Just curious.

 

[RDKirk]

Vatican has already said that this is a cut and paste job. It's not true.
Vatican has not changed its stance on homosexuality. It's still an unacceptable lifestyle.

At least unacceptable for a Christian.

 

[HIM]

Agreed.
Tolerance is miles away from acceptance.

JohnDB thank you for your response.

However Is tolerance a form of acceptance? In my tolerance am I silent? Can the persons caught up tell by my presence that their actions need be in align with the Lord's? Though we love them we have disdain for said actions which are like viruses. Which when left uncheck spread from one person to another. Case and point. I would have not known of fornication unless I was exposed to it and the idea of it. Once I was, I entertained the thought and out of curiosity I was lead into sin.

 

[stevevw]

Vatican has already said that this is a cut and paste job. It's not true.
Vatican has not changed its stance on homosexuality. It's still an unacceptable lifestyle.

Ok well regardless I think you have misunderstood what I have said. I didnt say that the Popes acknowledgement of same sex civil unions meant the Pope supported same sex marriage. Only that he was acknowledging the right of secular insititutions to make laws accordingly. In other words as Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is ceasars and to God what is Gods.

 

[stevevw]

You are mistaken thinking this is a good thing. People of God should always oppose this and the things in the list you compiled. Just because we live with it doesn't mean we are to be silent. Though these things will wax worse regardless. Our complacency will only speed up the process.

I didnt say the Pope thought civil unions for same sex marriage was a good thing. Only that his acknowlement of secular laws was progressive. There is a difference.

 

[HIM]

I didnt say the Pope thought civil unions for same sex marriage was a good thing. Only that his acknowlement of secular laws was progressive. There is a difference.

Okay, but weather you know it or not You made a contrast between traditionalist and progressives. As if being a traditionalist was a bad thing.
Regardless. In this proclamation is acceptance. It goes without saying that one would acknowledge said laws, see that they exist. But what one should be proclaiming is I see this law, acknowledge it, but will never accept nor recognize it.

 

[The Ant]

Argentinian fella takes a stand against bigotry. Good for him.

 

[HIM]

Argentinian fella takes a stand against bigotry. Good for him.

It is not bigotry.

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB thank you for your response.

However Is tolerance a form of acceptance? In my tolerance am I silent? Can the persons caught up tell by my presence that their actions need be in align with the Lord's? Though we love them we have disdain for said actions which are like viruses. Which when left uncheck spread from one person to another. Case and point. I would have not known of fornication unless I was exposed to it and the idea of it. Once I was, I entertained the thought and out of curiosity I was lead into sin.

Tolerance is more aligned with allowing someone to breathe the same air as you even though they engage in perversion.
Intolerance is going out and hunting every perverted person possible.

Acceptance is more along the lines of promotion...we ain't gonna go there.

 

[RDKirk]

JohnDB thank you for your response.

However Is tolerance a form of acceptance? In my tolerance am I silent? Can the persons caught up tell by my presence that their actions need be in align with the Lord's? Though we love them we have disdain for said actions which are like viruses. Which when left uncheck spread from one person to another. Case and point. I would have not known of fornication unless I was exposed to it and the idea of it. Once I was, I entertained the thought and out of curiosity I was lead into sin.

Unless they profess to be believers, it's irrelevant whether their actions "align with the Lord's." Without faith, they are still unsaved.

If a person has faith, merely knowing that a sin exists will not lead him into it.

You need to be really careful with your line of thought here, because your argument leads to the conclusion that Christianity has historically accepted all manners of heinous actions.

 

[The Ant]

It is not bigotry.

Well, if bigotry is about a practice of prejudice against the members of a particular group, then I see no better word to describe it.

 

[JohnDB]

Well, if bigotry is about a practice of prejudice against the members of a particular group, then I see no better word to describe it.

Sanctification is a two step process.
It is pressure from the inside (with law) and pressure from the outside (with law).
This is the lesson of the Potter and the Clay to form a high, thin walled vessel that is extraordinary in value. It requires two hands.

If there's only pressure acceptable from one side all you can make from it is a chamber pot.

And the unwillingness to give up sin is a one sided/handed process of sanctification. Ergo a chamber pot (old type of bedpan)

 

[The Ant]

Sanctification is a two step process.
It is pressure from the inside (with law) and pressure from the outside (with law).
This is the lesson of the Potter and the Clay to form a high, thin walled vessel that is extraordinary in value. It requires two hands.

If there's only pressure acceptable from one side all you can make from it is a chamber pot.

And the unwillingness to give up sin is a one sided/handed process of sanctification. Ergo a chamber pot (old type of bedpan)

Sorry, I have completely no idea what you are talking about?

 

[JohnDB]

Sorry, I have completely no idea what you are talking about?

WOW...
OK
There's this set of books called the Old Testament that helps explain the Other set of books and letters called the New Testament.

In the Old Testament in the book known as Jeremiah chapter 18 there is a symbolic tale of a potter working clay.
And it is a representation of transforming our lives to become more acceptable to God.

Low, heavy walled vessels are for very common purposes. They never hold high dollar products like wine or oil. (Wine is a symbol for Joy and oil is a symbol for Holy Spirit)
A Potter makes no real money from poor quality clay products. The taller and thinner a piece of clay is formed (like a pitcher or cruette) the more money per piece He makes. (All is done as fast as possible)
Most Christians desire to be filled with wine or oil. People are typed by clay in this narrative. Some clay is better than other clay and not just a different color... although blending clays is absolutely beautiful when done well.

Self inflicted pressure to grow as well as external pressure from God can make tall, thin walled vessels.

That's what I was alluding to.
If someone doesn't want to grow in the grace and knowledge of God they are a proverbial bedpan of Christiandom... filled with excrement instead of joy or holy Spirit.

And from most people's experience most homosexuals don't want to leave their sin of homosexuality behind them. They want to continue. But they aren't the only ones... this board is full of people wanting to know if they can continue in sin and still be counted as being one of "us".
The answer is always "no".

 

[The Ant]

WOW...
OK
There's this set of books called the Old Testament that helps explain the Other set of books and letters called the New Testament.

In the Old Testament in the book known as Jeremiah chapter 18 there is a symbolic tale of a potter working clay.
And it is a representation of transforming our lives to become more acceptable to God.

Low, heavy walled vessels are for very common purposes. They never hold high dollar products like wine or oil. (Wine is a symbol for Joy and oil is a symbol for Holy Spirit)
A Potter makes no real money from poor quality clay products. The taller and thinner a piece of clay is formed (like a pitcher or cruette) the more money per piece He makes. (All is done as fast as possible)
Most Christians desire to be filled with wine or oil. People are typed by clay in this narrative. Some clay is better than other clay and not just a different color... although blending clays is absolutely beautiful when done well.

Self inflicted pressure to grow as well as external pressure from God can make tall, thin walled vessels.

That's what I was alluding to.
If someone doesn't want to grow in the grace and knowledge of God they are a proverbial bedpan of Christiandom... filled with excrement instead of joy or holy Spirit.

And from most people's experience most homosexuals don't want to leave their sin of homosexuality behind them. They want to continue. But they aren't the only ones... this board is full of people wanting to know if they can continue in sin and still be counted as being one of "us".
The answer is always "no".

After that description, why would anyone want to be one of "us"?

And it relates in no way to my comments about bigotry.

 

[JohnDB]

After that description, why would anyone want to be one of "us"?

And it relates in no way to my comments about bigotry.

It relates precisely.
Who you refer to as bigots is seen by them as unwilling to change by the name callers.

It's a difference between those of us who are in Life and those in death.