Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

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RestoreTheJoy

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just like it is twisted to justify hatred of people of other religions or of different orientations.

the fact remains that the owners of the publicly available venue chose to discriminate, they were taken to court and they lost their case
They did. So did the Masterpiece guy lose his case, permitting the local government - and a bunch of haters - shut him down after decades of just doing his baking. The Supreme Court addressed that travesty.

But not every case gains cert.
 
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hedrick

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They did. So did the Masterpiece guy lose his case, permitting the local government - and a bunch of haters - shut him down after decades of just doing his baking. The Supreme Court addressed that travesty.

But not every case gains cert.
However the Court didn't address the issue. They objected to the fact that the commission showed obvious prejudice. To my knowledge, it's still perfectly OK to have rules requiring someone in commerce to deal with all customers.

I'm generally in favor of allowing a pretty wide scope for religious freedom. I'm not convinced that requiring public enterprises to deal with all the public is a significant restriction.
 
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hedrick

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It "can be". But not successfully. You have to excise parts of scripture to come up with some of the conclusions we have seen both then - and now.
No. There's no excision involved. I've looked at older argument on racial issues. They are based on actual Biblical texts. They simply apply those texts in ways never intended by the authors. Just as in current cases.

People want to look to the Bible for answers. That's perfectly understandable. But it's too easy to look for passages using a lot of the relevant words without being clear whether they were actually intended to answer the question you're asking.
 
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Quartermaine

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It "can be". But not successfully. You have to excise parts of scripture to come up with some of the conclusions we have seen both then - and now.
it has a few centuries of very good success behind it.
 
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Quartermaine

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They did. So did the Masterpiece guy lose his case, permitting the local government - and a bunch of haters - shut him down after decades of just doing his baking. The Supreme Court addressed that travesty.

But not every case gains cert.
No one shut Masterpiece Bakery down, the owner chose to do that himself rather than follow the law and treat all customers with dignity and respect.

And the Supreme Court dodged the question of the constitutionality of a business putting out a white only sign on their storefront
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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No one shut Masterpiece Bakery down, the owner chose to do that himself rather than follow the law and treat all customers with dignity and respect.

And the Supreme Court dodged the question of the constitutionality of a business putting out a white only sign on their storefront
The death threats and damage and supplier harassment became an issue for the owner of Masterpiece, actually. He had always done weddings, and suddenly, after 30 years, local officials demanded he expand beyond the limits of his religious faith and teaching the definition of what constitutes a wedding. He refused. Harassment ensued.

Remember, this "wedding" for which he was originally sued wasn't even an actual legal possibility in the state at the time it happened. The complainants passed up many, many bakeries to come to see this guy, well known for his Christian faith, well known for having scriptures posted. If you think this wasn't a set up, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell to you.

I'm sure you know about that nut job Scardina who harassed him repeatedly, requesting cakes with erect pen***s and such. If you do not, you are not informed of how much this man has been put through by those who scream tolerance and extend none.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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No. There's no excision involved. I've looked at older argument on racial issues. They are based on actual Biblical texts. They simply apply those texts in ways never intended by the authors. Just as in current cases.

People want to look to the Bible for answers. That's perfectly understandable. But it's too easy to look for passages using a lot of the relevant words without being clear whether they were actually intended to answer the question you're asking.
Sometimes excision is the issue. Sometimes misuse and twisting, as you say, for the racial issues.

One needs to know the scriptures quite well for himself, and not just permit himself to be told by others what it means.
 
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JohnDB

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Today Francis appointed 13 new Cardinals of which 9 will be voting members.

Not exactly sure how this will change the makeup of future elections.

But of particular note is that the first Black American Cardinal was appointed.
The media is claiming that this is the first black cardinal in the world...but that's not exactly true.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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However the Court didn't address the issue. They objected to the fact that the commission showed obvious prejudice. To my knowledge, it's still perfectly OK to have rules requiring someone in commerce to deal with all customers.

I'm generally in favor of allowing a pretty wide scope for religious freedom. I'm not convinced that requiring public enterprises to deal with all the public is a significant restriction.
The commission demonstrated religious bigotry against one they said was discriminating against others. Ironic.

He was not. An artist - and cake decorators are artists as opposed to just bakers - cannot be required to do any and all events, regardless of conscience. This guy also didn't sell Halloween cakes, or divorce celebration cakes.

He did deal with the public - all of the public. As a baker, anyone and everyone could walk in and buy anything he had for sale in the shop. As an artistic event, he would not do those that contradicted his faith - and in this case, an event that wasn't even a real thing, nor legal. That's perfectly fair.

He is not the sole cake maker in the state; go to someone else, as one would have to do for his Halloween cake, if he wanted one, though he could stop in and buy any cake off the shelf at any time.

This is about one sole limitation; not doing wedding cakes for what is not a wedding in his faith.

Still waiting for the case where someone approaches a Muslim baker for the same thing. I think I will be waiting awhile.
 
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hedrick

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Still waiting for the case where someone approaches a Muslim baker for the same thing. I think I will be waiting awhile.
You might be surprised. Here's a Muslim scholar's view. A Muslim perspective on the Masterpiece Cakeshop case. While I can't find the story, someone called several Muslim bakers asking about this scenario, and they had no problem.

As a minority that is often treated with suspicion, Muslims have an obvious interest in strong anti-discrimination laws.
 
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Quartermaine

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The death threats
what death threats? None were ever reported to the police.

and damage
what damage?


and supplier harassment
what harassment?

became an issue for the owner of Masterpiece, actually. He had always done weddings, and suddenly, after 30 years, local officials demanded he expand beyond the limits of his religious faith and teaching the definition of what constitutes a wedding. He refused. Harassment ensued.
Business owners can wave a bible all they like but they still can't refuse to serve black people

Remember, this "wedding" for which he was originally sued wasn't even an actual legal possibility in the state at the time it happened.
remember the couple had already married in another state

The complainants passed up many, many bakeries to come to see this guy, well known for his Christian faith, well known for having scriptures posted. If you think this wasn't a set up, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell to you.
I'd ask for evidence of this but this is just a well known lie put out by hate groups

I'm sure you know about that nut job Scardina who harassed him repeatedly, requesting cakes with erect pen***s and such.
another lie

If you do not, you are not informed of how much this man has been put through by those who scream tolerance and extend none.
you mean like business owners who discriminate
 
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Quartermaine

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The commission demonstrated religious bigotry against one they said was discriminating against others. Ironic.

He was not. An artist - and cake decorators are artists as opposed to just bakers - cannot be required to do any and all events, regardless of conscience. This guy also didn't sell Halloween cakes, or divorce celebration cakes.

He did deal with the public - all of the public. As a baker, anyone and everyone could walk in and buy anything he had for sale in the shop. As an artistic event, he would not do those that contradicted his faith - and in this case, an event that wasn't even a real thing, nor legal. That's perfectly fair.

He is not the sole cake maker in the state; go to someone else, as one would have to do for his Halloween cake, if he wanted one, though he could stop in and buy any cake off the shelf at any time.

This is about one sole limitation; not doing wedding cakes for what is not a wedding in his faith.

Still waiting for the case where someone approaches a Muslim baker for the same thing. I think I will be waiting awhile.
in 2015 Steven Crowder of Louder with Crowder did just that. he went to 17 Islamic bakers in the Detroit area, laughably pretend to be gay and tried to order a wedding cake. He claimed that three of those bakeries refused him....turned out he lied, one of the bakeries only baked bread, a second only catered traditional Lebanese weddings which don't include cakes of any sort and at a third he edited out the fact that he filled out the wedding cake order form.
 
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SkyWriting

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He makes out that homosexual "couples" are in a genuine family.The man is a heretic. Flat out.The old joke response is "Is the Pope Catholic". Well the answer is now "Not anymore".

Being that Poe is the head of the church, then by definition he is not a heretic. Flat out.
 
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SkyWriting

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I truly thought that this was a joke or over-exaggerating a press release of some kind.
Then I looked at the news...
Can they excommunicate the Pope?
I know that they are about to have a civil war within the ranks.

They can't because he was the one who convinced them to vote him into His position, after substantial prayer.
 
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Inkfingers

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Being that Poe is the head of the church, then by definition he is not a heretic. Flat out.

Christ is the head of the church.

ANYONE ELSE can be a heretic.
 
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Strathos

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There has been some calls for the current pope to resign...
And then the fears from recent appointments to Cardinals that any new pope would be worse than the current.

There's this cool new thing called 'Protestantism', if you're dissatisfied with Catholicism, you might want to give it a try. :D
 
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JohnDB

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There's this cool new thing called 'Protestantism', if you're dissatisfied with Catholicism, you might want to give it a try. :D

Ha ha...
I'm not Catholic nor do I play one on TV.

But that doesn't mean that I don't have dear Catholics as friends. We share a lot of the same views on a lot of things. I respect them and they respect me.

This Pope Francis has been a ton of trouble since he got elected. Nobody but a few are happy with him.
The local parish means more to your average Catholic than what comes out of the Vatican. Sure the Vatican is important, and is relied upon for various reasons. But this latest is over the top. They aren't amused. (Think angry older mother superior looking shocked and disgusted at the same time while holding that yardstick)

I think some nuns are fixing to have a March on the Vatican to tell the men that they are making too many mistakes and are too full of their own wisdom for their own good.
 
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