Demons (devils) are in fact - fallen angels. (According to the Bible)

[rom8:38]

Given that demons are evil, they could not have started out that way, because God cannot create evil. I for one, believe the fallen angels are indeed the demons. Perfect angels who took it upon themselves (using their free will, as this is the only plausible explanation to me) to rebel against God, and subsequently were corrupted. In fact, it's a great lesson for all of us.
God Bless.

 

[d taylor]

​

I've heard many make the argument that demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

I am not on facebook but this is post by Ariel's School of Messianic Jewish Studies

In some translations, the word Nephilim has been translated to the word “giant.” People reading this picture huge human beings. But the word in Hebrew does not mean giants, rather, it means, “fallen ones.” The word does not refer to giants in the sense of huge beings, but to a race of fallen ones. The reason it was translated as giant is very interesting. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament done about 250 B.C., the Jewish scholars translated verse 4 by the Greek word gigentes, which means “Titan.” Our English word “giant” comes from this Greek word, gigentes.

Link below to the full facebook post of Arnold Fruchtenbaum

Ariel's School of Messianic Jewish Studies​

 

[Palmfever]

Given that demons are evil, they could not have started out that way, because God cannot create evil. I for one, believe the fallen angels are indeed the demons. Perfect angels who took it upon themselves (using their free will, as this is the only plausible explanation to me) to rebel against God, and subsequently were corrupted. In fact, it's a great lesson for all of us.
God Bless.

Isaiah, 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God has no qualms about the fact that He created it all. This world is a proving ground, boot camp. We chose or reject evil. There are no other Gods, no other creator who slipped something past our God.

Yet another one for free will. No pre-programmed Zombies here.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

1 Cor, 10:13. No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

In Christ

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe that's one of the reasons they fell, they left their natural estate and mated with human women.
God Bless

It would be like saying "you sinned when you grew wings and started to soar with eagles" or when you started spinning a web like a spider - to catch bugs. You are not created with that function. Jesus said the angels are not created with that as a function. They can't even do it within their own species let alone across species.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

I thought that and was asked where it stated that. What it states is that they don't marry or are not given in marriage. Matt, 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

True. The one who created them says they don't have that as a function. It is not like saying "I created them to enjoy food - but I told them not to ever eat". Christ is saying that they are not even created with that function for their own species let alone across species.

One conclusion could be That those who are married and are "one" remain... or not, but there are no new marriages. Or, we are all single, spiritual creatures. I don't know that it is worth arguing.
In Christ

When it comes to humans it is a different story - we know we are in fact created with the function of pro-creation and so we do form families.

Maybe Christ will change something about our biology when we are resurrected and taken to heaven.

 

[d taylor]

It would be like saying "you sinned when you grew wings and started to soar with eagles" or when you started spinning a web like a spider - to catch bugs. You are not created with that function. Jesus said the angels are not created with that as a function. They can't even do it within their own species let alone across species.

This makes no sense, a very poor analogy. You do not even understand angels are men.

yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering.

 

[BobRyan]

One possibility is, the fallen angels possessed the husbands or men and passed on their spiritual genes in that way. The Bible doesn't specify which method was used but it does say that they came into the daughters of men. That expression is used in other parts of the bible to describe the act of impregnating women.

1. The Bible doesn't mention fallen angels at all in Genesis 6.
2. The Bible doesn't mention demons at all in Genesis 6.

the entire scenario has to be made up once the choice is taken to disconnect the prince of demons (Satan) vs (Satan and his angels) to make them two entirely different things ... for reasons yet to be explained. Once you do that you have to then make up a back story for the demons and then make up a story about what their end would be.

It is much easier and direct to take the fact that Rev 12 calls Satan "the devil, the dragon, the serpent" in Rev 12 and in Matt 10:8 "cast out devils" (KJV) same as "cast out demons" NASB ... names for the same thing ... fallen angels just as the Devil is a fallen angel.

With that simple step no need to make up a back story for "demons" because they are formerly sinless angels, that became fallen angels, go to "hell prepared for the devil and his angels" Matt 25.

 

[BobRyan]

This makes no sense, a very poor analogy. You do not even understand angels are men. .

whaaaaat????

That trail is going to stranger and stranger places ...
Angels are not men.

yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering.

In Genesis 18 we are told that 3 men were walking towards Abraham ... one of them was YHWH.. and Angels are not men -- and YHWH in the OT was not a man. No matter that they can appear in that form to a human.

 

[d taylor]

BobRyan said: ↑
ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.



True. The one who created them says they don't have that as a function. It is not like saying "I created them to enjoy food - but I told them not to ever eat". Christ is saying that they are not even created with that function for their own species let alone across species.



When it comes to humans it is a different story - we know we are in fact created with the function of pro-creation and so we do form families.

Maybe Christ will change something about our biology when we are resurrected and taken to heaven.

That is in heaven. stop using only part of a verse. It is seen when the angels came to Sodom and Gomorrah men wanted to have sex with them.

 

[BobRyan]

That is in heaven. stop using only part of a verse. It is seen when the angels came to Sodom and Gomorrah men wanted to have sex with them.

Angels can appear in the form of men
Just as YHWH did in Gen 18

 

[d taylor]

whaaaaat????

That trail is going to stranger and stranger places ...
Angels are not men.



In Genesis 18 we are told that 3 men were walking towards Abraham ... one of them was YHWH.. and Angels are not men -- and YHWH in the OT was not a man. No matter that they can appear in that form to a human.

Then address the verse i posted that states the man Gabriel

 

[Palmfever]

Maybe Christ will change something about our biology when we are resurrected and taken to heaven.

Yeah, pretty much all of it.
1 Cor, 15:47. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Human biology? That’ll be done. New suits. Version 2.0. A new temple.

I know you know. You seem to be familiar with scripture.

In Christ

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah, pretty much all of it.
1 Cor, 15:47. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Human biology? That’ll be done. New suits. Version 2.0. A new temple.

I know you know. You seem to be familiar with scripture.

In Christ

well it is something different -- I just don't know what.

John didn't all that much about it either -- take a look at 1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

 

[Palmfever]

well it is something different -- I just don't know what.

John didn't all that much about it either -- take a look at 1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

Nor Paul,
2 Cor 12:3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
In Christ

 

[DamianWarS]

I believe you are on to something there.

I find that doubtful

Are you saying early genesis accounts follow the same sort of rational as later genesis accounts?

Pre-abrahamic accounts are quite a bit different than post. They are more isolated and disconnected lacking a continuity seen in post Abrahamic accounts. They are like a string of unrelated stories juxtaposed and tied together only with a genology.

I reconize the difference and that there is a reason for it. Looking at the surface details of the accounts and trying to figure out stuff like if angels had a super human race children to me misses the point. There is a goal in the account and that goal is about the corruption of man and it's not really about angels at all, they are used as literary devices to communicate the severity of corruption not to communicate what an angel (or son of God) is or what they are not. It really doesn't matter what they were or even if they existed, because that's not the point.

The bible is not and a handbook on angels and anything we glean from it to study angels we have to first understand it is not the point of the bible to explain what an angel is and what an angel is not. So we have to accept any conclusions we make regarding angels may be completely wrong. hyper-focus on these details imo tells us nothing conclusive because angels are not the focus of the text so we have already crossed a barrier the bible was never trying to guide us through.

 

[Dan1988]

Given that demons are evil, they could not have started out that way, because God cannot create evil. I for one, believe the fallen angels are indeed the demons. Perfect angels who took it upon themselves (using their free will, as this is the only plausible explanation to me) to rebel against God, and subsequently were corrupted. In fact, it's a great lesson for all of us.
God Bless.

The Bible tells us that God predestined the whole of human history from creation through to the end of time and the world. God prepared His plan of salvation for His elect before He created the world so this means that the fall of man was also predestined by God.
There was no atonement planned or provided for the Angels. Those who joined Satan in his rebellion have no forgiveness, so they will be cast into the lake of fire forever without the possibility of parole.

 

[Dan1988]

1. The Bible doesn't mention fallen angels at all in Genesis 6.
2. The Bible doesn't mention demons at all in Genesis 6.

the entire scenario has to be made up once the choice is taken to disconnect the prince of demons (Satan) vs (Satan and his angels) to make them two entirely different things ... for reasons yet to be explained. Once you do that you have to then make up a back story for the demons and then make up a story about what their end would be.

It is much easier and direct to take the fact that Rev 12 calls Satan "the devil, the dragon, the serpent" in Rev 12 and in Matt 10:8 "cast out devils" (KJV) same as "cast out demons" NASB ... names for the same thing ... fallen angels just as the Devil is a fallen angel.

With that simple step no need to make up a back story for "demons" because they are formerly sinless angels, that became fallen angels, go to "hell prepared for the devil and his angels" Matt 25.

This doesn't answer who the "Sons of God were, the mighty Ones of old". God only created Angels and men, so these Sons of God must be fallen Angels. I don't believe that God created other aliens and kept it a secret from us.

 

[BobRyan]

This doesn't answer who the "Sons of God were, the mighty Ones of old"

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Nephilim were there BEFORE the sons of God (people of Seth's descendants) mingled with the "daughters of men" -- women of the descendants of Cain.


In all of scripture "sons of God" are always those obedient to God - see John 1:12.

. God created Angels and men, so these sons of God must be descendants of Seth.

P.S. Angels are alien to Earth - they are not from New Jersey or any other such Earthly origin.

=======================

details that should not be skimmed over or ignored.

 

[BobRyan]

1. Demons are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
2. Demons were not created as such - rather they were created by God as sinless perfect beings at the start.
3. Fallen Angels are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
4. Angels do not have the feature/biology to have angel-children or angel families - much less become father to human children. See Matt 22.

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven

Is all this to say the Nephilim are not angels?

I believe you are on to something there.

Early Genesis accounts are not dreams but like dreams they can make no sense .

I find that doubtful

Are you saying early genesis accounts follow the same sort of rational as later genesis accounts?

Ex 20:11 many centuries after the Genesis events -- shows the exact same 7 day week in Gen 1:2-2:4 is the timeline for creation week. No change at all.

Pre-abrahamic accounts are quite a bit different than post.

IT is the same God - so it is the same trusted scripture - and not only that but the human recording them all -- is the same person -- Moses. Are you thinking that he had a brain aneurysm while writing part of the Bible then recovered a few pages later?

NT writers quote from it as literally true.

 

[BobRyan]

Nor Paul,
2 Cor 12:3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
In Christ

That is a different case from 1 John 3:1-3. In John the topic is the resurrected body and what it will be like, and the fact that he does not know the details for that.

In 2 Cor 12 Paul is saying that he could not tell if he was taken bodily to heaven and shown things in heaven or if it was an out-of-the-body experience.