Demons (devils) are in fact - fallen angels. (According to the Bible)

[BobRyan]

Then where did the nephilim come from?

Nephilim is a term for strong/giant/large people (as compared to) someone in Moses' day or David's day (or our day).

They also lived a very long time before the flood and afterwards for a while (as compared to Moses' day, David's day, our day).

There were Nephilim before the flood and afterwards.

That means Noah was Nephilim.

And it means that Adam was Nephilim by comparison to us, and also by comparison to contemporaries of Moses.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You'd have to "insert it" no text says that they are not the same thing.

If you insert it -- then you have no origin at all for demons since the Bible shows where fallen angels originated from - but does not say
"and demons originated from"
nor even " and God created demons"

The Bible points to the doom of fallen angels in the lake of fire etc hell... but there is no specific statement about demons having an end or sent to the lake of fire etc -- so more making stuff up for that as well.

-- it is all complete ad hoc stories once you choose the route that they are two different groups Satan is the king of.

I found that fact very compelling

Ok, thanks.

Demons, very interesting subject.

 

[DamianWarS]

1. Demons are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
2. Demons were not created as such - rather they were created by God as sinless perfect beings at the start.
3. Fallen Angels are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
4. Angels do not have the feature/biology to have angel-children or angel families - much less become father to human children. See Matt 22.

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven

Is all this to say the Nephilim are not angels? Those early genesis account really have too little information to make conclusion. They have broad strokes but no fine details and details they do have can be irrational. They are more akin to folklore and mythology in that they are isolated accounts where everything in the account makes no sense outside so they operate in type of vacuum and have their own rules.

Did you ever listen to someone explaining their dreams? We blankly accept a lot irrational things in dreams because they have their own rules. We don't reject the dream or say it wasn't real and often dreams are used to tell of some greater truth.

Early Genesis accounts are not dreams but like dreams they can make no sense and like dreams may have they have a lot of deep meaning. Sometimes in a dream it's less important that a person's hair turns into spaghetti and starts melting like cheese but if the dream has deeper meaning the deeper meaning is far more important. I garentee you those early genesis accounts all have far deeper meaning but sometimes all we see is the melting spaghetti hair that we miss the point.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

2 Peter 3
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly

I have seen you disprove your own point, before, so I'm not so naive as to think that you will change your own mind, but...you do realize that you just disproved your own point, don't you?

In the above verse, tell me what happened to the angels that sinned. Where are they? Now, tell me where were the demons when Jesus encountered them. If the fallen angels were cast into Tartarus, then they can't very well be on Earth, possessing people.

 

[BobRyan]

I have seen you disprove your own point,

I have tried to imagine that happening as well. have not been able to do it.

you do realize that you just disproved your own point, don't you?

This should be good.

In the above verse, tell me what happened to the angels that sinned. Where are they?

They are confined to earth. As Rev 12 points out "cast down to the Earth".

next.

Now, tell me where were the demons when Jesus encountered them.

Same place... Earth.

next.

If the fallen angels were cast into Tartarus, then they can't very well be on Earth,

Why not?... it is Earth.

As Rev 12 points out - they are confined to Earth.

Notice that in Rev 12 the war in heaven is extending out even to the point in time after the resurrection of Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

1. Demons are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
2. Demons were not created as such - rather they were created by God as sinless perfect beings at the start.
3. Fallen Angels are never called Nephilim in the Bible.
4. Angels do not have the feature/biology to have angel-children or angel families - much less become father to human children. See Matt 22.

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, since you do not understand the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven

Is all this to say the Nephilim are not angels?

I believe you are on to something there.

Early Genesis accounts are not dreams but like dreams they can make no sense .

I find that doubtful

 

[Palmfever]

If this is in reference to Satan, he was created, he was in the Garden, he was cast down. And for those who buy the lie of no choice, pre-programmed zombie humans, here again is an example of free will.
In Ezekeil, 28:12, We see a choice of self over God.

“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’
Isaiah, 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

In Christ

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sons of God is always a term applied to those who serve and obey God - for example John 1:12

If this is a correct definition how can it apply to the beings in Gen 6?

 

[BobRyan]

If this is a correct definition how can it apply to the beings in Gen 6?

In Gen 6 you have the descendants of Seth vs the descendants of Cain. Just as the righteous in John 1:12 are called sons of God - so the good people in Gen 6 are the sons of God - descendants of Seth but when they turned to co-mingle with the people of Cain their religion became corrupt and as the Bible says "if the salt has lost its savor..."

The people of God are the "light of the world" according to Christ and if they turn to darkness then the whole place goes to pot.

 

[d taylor]

Nephilim (Hebrew) means fallen ones and not giant beings.

 

[HappyHope]

God created everything good.

Including sinless Angels - some of whom fell and were then called demons
========================
Demons are angels who fell:

"Satan and HIS angels" = "the dragon and HIS angels"

2 Peter 3
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, held for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly

Rev 12
3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven crowns. 4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven

It is then a case of "Satan and HIS angels" vs the angels of heaven in Rev 12.

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Matthew 25:41: “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’”

Matt 12:23 “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”

954. Beelzeboul -- Beelzebul, a name of Satan
... 2 Ki 1:2) -- Beelzebul, a title of Satan which stresses he is the prince
over demons ("demonic flies"). See also 4567 ("Satan").

So would you interpret 1 Corinthians 6:3 to mean believers will judge demons not angels one day if angels are sinless?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Why not?... [Tartarus] is Earth.

That's rich. See, I knew this was futile.

 

[HARK!]

you do see that but no Bible text says that
Nephilim are angels
or that they were angels
or that they are fallen angels
or that they are demons

It's my understanding that nephilim are the offspring of angels who mated with women.

 

[BobRyan]

It's my understanding that nephilim are the offspring of angels who mated with women.

ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

 

[BobRyan]

So would you interpret 1 Corinthians 6:3 to mean believers will judge demons not angels one day if angels are sinless?

demons and fallen angels are names for the same thing...

Just as in Rev 12, Satan, Devil, Dragon, Serpent are all names for Satan.

 

[BobRyan]

Nephilim (Hebrew) means fallen ones and not giant beings.

No it doesn't - at least not at the time of the OT writing - the more ancient form does not require the large/powerful person to be evil.

 

[HARK!]

ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

What is your understanding of Genesis 6?

 

[Dan1988]

ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

One possibility is, the fallen angels possessed the husbands or men and passed on their spiritual genes in that way. The Bible doesn't specify which method was used but it does say that they came into the daughters of men. That expression is used in other parts of the bible to describe the act of impregnating women.

 

[Palmfever]

ok.. I am just pointing out this detail.

no Bible text says that:

• Nephilim are angels
• or that they ever were angels
• or that they are fallen angels
• or that they are demons

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

I thought that and was asked where it stated that. What it states is that they don't marry or are not given in marriage. Matt, 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." One conclusion could be That those who are married and are "one" remain... or not, but there are no new marriages. Or, we are all single, spiritual creatures. I don't know that it is worth arguing.
In Christ

 

[lismore]

But we do have a Bible text in Matt 22 where Christ says angels don't even mate with each other -- much less with other species. They don't have that function.

Maybe that's one of the reasons they fell, they left their natural estate and mated with human women.
God Bless