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SabbathBlessings

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To answer your question, I believe that Jesus Christ has fulfilled all of the Law completely, for all time for all who believe in Him, and that we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Thus, none of the commandments of God can be obeyed ever by any sinful person, including Christians. To think otherwise would deny the person and the work of Jesus Christ.

Whether one chooses to be a vegetarian or to eat meat in love for God is a matter of personal conviction, so to hold another person guilty for violating the dietary law of the Old Testament (which is quite specific, containing many commandments given by God Himself to His people, Israel and not to Gentiles) is simply wrong.
So do you not believe there is any law? (oaky to kill, okay to lie etc.) Do you believe in the second covenant and if so was that for Jews only or is that for everyone?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Maybe because they want the reader to evaluate what they say based on the Bible alone not on what denomination agrees with them.
That's a really good point. Pastor Doug was not raised SDA, far from it. His story is really interesting, multi-million dollar parents and he ended up living in a cave outside of LA. There was a Bible and a note that was left in the cave. He started reading the Bible and by not having any preconceived notions about religion the Bible led him to Sabbath-keeping. Our church sermon yesterday was his personal testimony. Even though I have heard it before and read his book Richest Caveman, it is still inspiring.
 
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bbbbbbb

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So do you not believe there is any law? (oaky to kill, okay to lie etc.) Do you believe in the second covenant and if so was that for Jews only or is that for everyone?

Of course, The Law still exists and will be the basis for the condemnation of all humanity destined for the Lake of Fire which burns forever and ever.

The New Covenant is, as it says, New. It is not a reformed and revised version of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is for all those who have been predestined from eternity past who compose the Church of God.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Of course, The Law still exists and will be the basis for the condemnation of all humanity destined for the Lake of Fire which burns forever and ever.

The New Covenant is, as it says, New. It is not a reformed and revised version of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is for all those who have been predestined from eternity past who compose the Church of God.

You do realize the Bible never says the New Covenant was made for Gentiles?


Jeremiah 31: 31-43
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 8:7-12
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Just like the Old Covenant (10 commandments) it was not only meant for only for
Jews, but the good news is everyone is grafted into Israel Romans 11:11-24

The only difference between the first covenant and the second is the law is written in our hearts and minds. We obey God because we love Him. We obey the letter and the spirit of the law. Jesus came to magnify God's law.

Jesus very clearly said He did not come to destroy the law.

Mathew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

And Jesus gives an example of fulfilling the Spirit of the law in the New Covenant

Mathew 5:17-20
Murder Begins in the Heart
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Adultery in the Heart
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus came to do the will of His father so removing the law of God is not His fathers will, it contradicts God which is not Biblical

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

If there was no law than we do not need a Savior. God's law is perfect and meant to be everlasting. If everyone followed the laws of God I bet it would be a lot like heaven.

Revelations 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

God Bless
 
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bbbbbbb

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You do realize the Bible never says the New Covenant was made for Gentiles?


Jeremiah 31: 31-43
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 8:7-12
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Just like the Old Covenant (10 commandments) it was not only meant for only for
Jews, but the good news is everyone is grafted into Israel Romans 11:11-24

The only difference between the first covenant and the second is the law is written in our hearts and minds. We obey God because we love Him. We obey the letter and the spirit of the law. Jesus came to magnify God's law.

Jesus very clearly said He did not come to destroy the law.

Mathew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

And Jesus gives an example of fulfilling the Spirit of the law in the New Covenant

Mathew 5:17-20
Murder Begins in the Heart
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Adultery in the Heart
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus came to do the will of His father so removing the law of God is not His fathers will, it contradicts God which is not Biblical

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

If there was no law than we do not need a Savior. God's law is perfect and meant to be everlasting. If everyone followed the laws of God I bet it would be a lot like heaven.

Revelations 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

God Bless

Did I ever say that the New Covenant was made for Gentiles?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I have simply stated that the New Covenant is not a reformed version of the Old Covenant. Do you disagree with that?
It's not my opinion that matters, it's what the Bible teaches that counts. If you read my previous post (184) than you would know the answer.

What law of the Bible do you follow?
 
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Icyspark

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I have simply stated that the New Covenant is not a reformed version of the Old Covenant. Do you disagree with that?


Hi bbbbbbb,

Could you tell me you understanding of what a covenant is? Then, could you tell us what the reason was for the necessity of a new covenant?

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hi bbbbbbb,

Could you tell me you understanding of what a covenant is? Then, could you tell us what the reason was for the necessity of a new covenant?

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. 3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

4 Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. 5 And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest’s office have a commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their countrymen, although they are descended from Abraham. 6 But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises. 7 But without any dispute the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8 In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. 9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, has paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins of his forefather when Melchizedek met him.

11 So if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope, through which we come near to God. 20 And to the extent that it was not without an oath 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

“The Lord has sworn
And will not change His mind,
‘You are a priest forever’”);

22 by the same extent Jesus also has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing; 24 Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is also able to save forever those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; 27 who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because He did this once for all time when He offered up Himself. 28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8: Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as he was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things by the pattern which was shown to you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with the people, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
"When I will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care about them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, declares the Lord:
j]"I will put My laws into their minds,
And write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen,
And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For they will all know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful toward their wrongdoings,
And their sins I will no longer remember.”

13 l]"When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.
 
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Icyspark

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Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. 3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

4 Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. 5 And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest’s office have a commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their countrymen, although they are descended from Abraham. 6 But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises. 7 But without any dispute the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8 In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. 9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, has paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins of his forefather when Melchizedek met him.

11 So if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope, through which we come near to God. 20 And to the extent that it was not without an oath 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

“The Lord has sworn
And will not change His mind,
‘You are a priest forever’”);

22 by the same extent Jesus also has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing; 24 Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is also able to save forever those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; 27 who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because He did this once for all time when He offered up Himself. 28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8: Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as he was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things by the pattern which was shown to you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with the people, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
"When I will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care about them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, declares the Lord:
j]"I will put My laws into their minds,
And write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen,
And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For they will all know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful toward their wrongdoings,
And their sins I will no longer remember.”

13 l]"When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.


Hi bbbbbbb,

Thanks for supplying a biblical passage which deals with the issue under consideration. You did not, however, respond to my questions. If you examine the text you've supplied you should be able to discover the answer to the second question below.

Here're the questions again:
  • What is a covenant?
  • Why was the new covenant necessary?
God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hi bbbbbbb,

Thanks for supplying a biblical passage which deals with the issue under consideration. You did not, however, respond to my questions. If you examine the text you've supplied you should be able to discover the answer to the second question below.

Here're the questions again:
  • What is a covenant?
  • Why was the new covenant necessary?
God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

If you failed to find the answers in that passage I recommend that you do your own Bible study. You might want to start with "covenant" in a concordance. Both Genesis and Exodus contain multiple examples of covenants.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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If you failed to find the answers in that passage I recommend that you do your own Bible study. You might want to start with "covenant" in a concordance. Both Genesis and Exodus contain multiple examples of covenants.
I think @Icyspark made a good point, the answer is there. What laws in the second covenant is the Lord referring to? There has only been one God's law (first covenant) thus far, so what laws are in the second covenant?
 
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Icyspark

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If you failed to find the answers in that passage I recommend that you do your own Bible study. You might want to start with "covenant" in a concordance. Both Genesis and Exodus contain multiple examples of covenants.


Hi bbbbbbb,

While Hebrews 7 and 8 are certainly relevant to any discussion about covenants, it does not overtly supply the answer to my first question (i.e. what is a covenant?). I don't believe that many people understand what a covenant is, thus they have problems relating to what is happening in Hebrews 8.

From Easton's Bible Dictionary definition for "covenant": a contract or agreement between two parties.

With that basic premise in mind you should be able to ascertain that the two parties of the old covenant/agreement were the Israelites and God. What they agreed to was the law God presented to the Israelites. The law was not the covenant. The law was what they both agreed should be obeyed.

Exodus 24:3
When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.”

The people agreed/covenanted to do "everything the Lord has said." That was the covenant. That was the agreement.

The answer to the second question (What was wrong with the first covenant?)--which you are apparently unwilling to engage--is found in Hebrews 8:7-9:

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

The answer to "what was wrong with the old covenant/agreement?" is found right there. Verse 7 identifies that there was something "wrong with that first covenant," thus necessitating "another." Verse 8 tells why "another" was needed. Does it say anything about any problems involving what was agreed upon? No. Well, then where was the problem? "God found fault with the people." Did God "find fault with the people" because of a defective or deficient law which God Himself provided? The Psalmist says, "The law of the Lord is perfect."

So why did God find "fault with the people"? The answer is found in verse 9: "because they did not remain faithful to my covenant/agreement."

Remember, after hearing "all the Lord's words and laws" the people responded and said, "Everything the Lord has said we will do." They did not "do" and thus God found fault with them not remaining faithful to His covenant.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hi bbbbbbb,

While Hebrews 7 and 8 are certainly relevant to any discussion about covenants, it does not overtly supply the answer to my first question (i.e. what is a covenant?). I don't believe that many people understand what a covenant is, thus they have problems relating to what is happening in Hebrews 8.

From Easton's Bible Dictionary definition for "covenant": a contract or agreement between two parties.

With that basic premise in mind you should be able to ascertain that the two parties of the old covenant/agreement were the Israelites and God. What they agreed to was the law God presented to the Israelites. The law was not the covenant. The law was what they both agreed should be obeyed.

Exodus 24:3
When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice, “Everything the Lord has said we will do.”

The people agreed/covenanted to do "everything the Lord has said." That was the covenant. That was the agreement.

The answer to the second question (What was wrong with the first covenant?)--which you are apparently unwilling to engage--is found in Hebrews 8:7-9:

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

The answer to "what was wrong with the old covenant/agreement?" is found right there. Verse 7 identifies that there was something "wrong with that first covenant," thus necessitating "another." Verse 8 tells why "another" was needed. Does it say anything about any problems involving what was agreed upon? No. Well, then where was the problem? "God found fault with the people." Did God "find fault with the people" because of a defective or deficient law which God Himself provided? The Psalmist says, "The law of the Lord is perfect."

So why did God find "fault with the people"? The answer is found in verse 9: "because they did not remain faithful to my covenant/agreement."

Remember, after hearing "all the Lord's words and laws" the people responded and said, "Everything the Lord has said we will do." They did not "do" and thus God found fault with them not remaining faithful to His covenant.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

This is a fine example of an OT covenant, but there are also dozens of others, as you probably know.
 
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Icyspark

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This is a fine example of an OT covenant, but there are also dozens of others, as you probably know.


Hi bbbbbbb,

Your comment has what to do with anything?
  • Do you agree with Easton's Bible Dictionary that a covenant is "a contract or agreement between two parties"?
  • Do you agree that the covenant was not the law itself, but rather that the law was what was agreed to?
  • Do you agree that "God found fault with the people," and not with His own "perfect" law?
  • Do you agree that the reason "God found fault with the people" was "because they did not remain faithful to" the agreement?
This is very simple. Unless the God you believe in is fickle, finite, and fallible, then you must understand that everything that comes from the infinite, all-knowing God described in the Bible is perfect. Again, what was agreed to was not the problem. The people were the problem as they didn't maintain their end of the agreement (i.e. "Everything the Lord has said we will do."). If you believe the law was the problem, then consider how you must relate to anything "new" or otherwise, which comes from the same flawed source. The new covenant has a plurality of "laws" (Hebrews 8:10). On what basis would you like to claim that these laws are less objectionable than the first?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hi bbbbbbb,

Your comment has what to do with anything?
  • Do you agree with Easton's Bible Dictionary that a covenant is "a contract or agreement between two parties"?
  • Do you agree that the covenant was not the law itself, but rather that the law was what was agreed to?
  • Do you agree that "God found fault with the people," and not with His own "perfect" law?
  • Do you agree that the reason "God found fault with the people" was "because they did not remain faithful to" the agreement?
This is very simple. Unless the God you believe in is fickle, finite, and fallible, then you must understand that everything that comes from the infinite, all-knowing God described in the Bible is perfect. Again, what was agreed to was not the problem. The people were the problem as they didn't maintain their end of the agreement (i.e. "Everything the Lord has said we will do."). If you believe the law was the problem, then consider how you must relate to anything "new" or otherwise, which comes from the same flawed source. The new covenant has a plurality of "laws" (Hebrews 8:10). On what basis would you like to claim that these laws are less objectionable than the first?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

I am simply attempting to encourage you and others to do your own Bible study. Most of the covenants in the Bible were made between people although the major covenants were between God and man with God establishing the terms of the covenant.
 
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Icyspark

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I am simply attempting to encourage you and others to do your own Bible study. Most of the covenants in the Bible were made between people although the major covenants were between God and man with God establishing the terms of the covenant. [This has exactly nothing to do with our current conversation]


Hi bbbbbbb,

Is that the reason why you keep deflecting answering my questions?

Third time:
  • Do you agree with Easton's Bible Dictionary that a covenant is "a contract or agreement between two parties"?
  • Do you agree that the covenant was not the law itself, but rather that the law was what was agreed to?
  • Do you agree that "God found fault with the people," and not with His own "perfect" law?
  • Do you agree that the reason "God found fault with the people" was "because they did not remain faithful to" the agreement?
But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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bbbbbbb

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Hi bbbbbbb,

Your comment has what to do with anything?
  • Do you agree with Easton's Bible Dictionary that a covenant is "a contract or agreement between two parties"?
  • Do you agree that the covenant was not the law itself, but rather that the law was what was agreed to?
  • Do you agree that "God found fault with the people," and not with His own "perfect" law?
  • Do you agree that the reason "God found fault with the people" was "because they did not remain faithful to" the agreement?
This is very simple. Unless the God you believe in is fickle, finite, and fallible, then you must understand that everything that comes from the infinite, all-knowing God described in the Bible is perfect. Again, what was agreed to was not the problem. The people were the problem as they didn't maintain their end of the agreement (i.e. "Everything the Lord has said we will do."). If you believe the law was the problem, then consider how you must relate to anything "new" or otherwise, which comes from the same flawed source. The new covenant has a plurality of "laws" (Hebrews 8:10). On what basis would you like to claim that these laws are less objectionable than the first?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

I know nothing at all about Mr. Easton and his Bible Commentary but I do not disagree with his definition of a covenant.

I do not know what you mean by “the covenant” as there are many covenants described in the Bible with the two major covenants being the Old and the New Covenants.

I suggest that you study Romans for an excellent discussion of the Old Covenant.
 
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