Buddhist Is Buddhism Really a Religion.

[zoidar]

From a Buddhist perspective, we will say we don't know for sure Julius Caesar, Socrates, or those martyrs existed. It's all based on faith, in many respects - faith in the "historical evidence", faith in the "historians", faith in their interpretations, etc.

Also, there are martyrs reported in other faiths as well.

It takes an insane man to believe in the resurrected Christ, or it is true. Also, It takes a sane man to believe in the enlightened Buddha or it's false.

 

[ananda]

Then I don't know what we can discuss....

We can discuss what we can know for sure through personal investigation and direct observation ... which is what Buddhism emphasizes instead.

 

[ananda]

Yes we have provided numerous evidences in this thread - Christian, Jewish and pagan, friendly and opposed.

What if I say that I do not find those evidences credible, and that I favor the evidences given by the side that suggest that Jesus did not exist (as the Bible teaches)?

These same evidences do not exist for Buddhism and for the life of the Buddha ... We know that Pontius Pilate was an historical person and that situates Jesus at a definite moment and place in human history. This kind of evidence simply does not exist for Buddha.

Not true; under your standard, I can also say "We know that King Bimbisara of the Magadha Empire and King Ajatasattu his son, along with King Pasenadi of the Kingdom of Kosala, were disciples of the Buddha as they were very frequently found in conversation with the Buddha in the Buddhist scriptures, which makes them historical persons and situates the Buddha at a definite moment and place in human history."

 

[zoidar]

We can discuss what we can know for sure through personal investigation and direct observation ... which is what Buddhism emphasizes instead.

No! Did that for ten years to find out it was the wrong way/method to know the truth.

 

[ananda]

No! Did that for ten years to find out it was the wrong way/method to know the truth.

What, do you believe then, is the right way/method to know the truth?

 

[zoidar]

What, do you believe then, is the right way/method to know the truth?

To know the truth you need to believe in the resurrected Christ and give your whole heart to him. Then you will know truth.

 

[ananda]

To know the truth you need to believe in the resurrected Christ and give your whole heart to him.

I did that ... for 3 decades. In the end, it was not fulfilling for me.

 

[zoidar]

I did that ... for 3 decades. In the end, it was not fulfilling for me.

Give this 7 min video a chance.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Are you a Catholic? Not to be provocative, but why are you taking stance for Buddha, you got Christ right?

I see Buddhism as offering some practices and teachings for good mental health and morality. So it is very practical. But for me it is not enough. It seems impersonal and ultimately pointless. But when used in the Christian context it can go right along with vigilance and love.

 

[ananda]

Give this 7 min video a chance.

Thanks for sharing. I have a similar testimony about going to the Buddha for refuge!

 

[ananda]

But for me it is not enough. It seems impersonal and ultimately pointless.

Thanks for sharing ... I had the opposite experience with Buddhism, I found that it answered all my questions that Christianity did not have answers for ... and, not only did I discover that the Buddha and His followers were exemplars of the highest compassion and loving-kindnesses, it also offered me a concrete Path that was testable and practicable, which gave great meaning to my own life.

 

[muichimotsu]

The enemies of Jesus claim he did healings and accuse him of magic working.

Babylonian Sanhedrin 107b – "The master said: Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic (Editions or MSs: Firenze II.1.8–9, Barco )
Babylonian Sotah 47a – "The master said: Jesus the Nazarene because he practiced magic" (Editions or MS: Munich 95)

Josephus also suggests the same (quoting from Arabic version of Testimonium Flavianum which lacks Christian interpolations)

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous.14 And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship.15 They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly 16 he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders

There is no such suggestion of miracles by the Buddha from contemporary sources.

Again, granting that is not the same as concluding it must have happened, you're not understanding that distinction at all, but continue to just insist it must be true because you can find stuff that confirms your presupposition that Jesus did miracles in the first place. History doesn't just accept that miracles happened merely because people reported it, especially when we're talking about ancient times when people didn't understand such things and immediately concluded it must be magic or such rather than any number of other explanations (sleight of hand, primitive science, etc)

And the Talmud quotes you use are debatable as to referring to Jesus, because they claim he was a student of a rabbi from 2nd century BCE, about 100+ years before Jesus was alleged to be born in 0 CE. Or do you not care about the historical context as long as you can quote mine to show this confirmation bias?

And "contemporary" is not always a specific term in terms of the range. But this doesn't grant more credence to Christianity merely because people in their cult decided they should claim miracles happened and the word spread: it suggests they cared more about that then any kind of substantive teaching in itself that wasn't ravings about the apocalypse or exclusivist tripe that regarded Jews as lesser, reinforcing a continued trend of anti-Jewish thought in Christianity.

 

[Zoii]

I respect people not the excrement they say and do.

Oh gee - when you attach excrement to the person - well no you dont pay respect; and its a shame and uncharitable. Understand I'm not criticising yours (or anyone elses) belief, but I know (and I have history on my side) how destructive it is when religious insults are thrown - yet its an altogether different outcome when respect is paid.

To take it out of a religious context - you only have to look at the vitriol and outright aggression shown when there's any discussion involving US politics. It works so much better when there's respect shown.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Thanks for sharing ... I had the opposite experience with Buddhism, I found that it answered all my questions that Christianity did not have answers for ... and, not only did I discover that the Buddha and His followers were exemplars of the highest compassion and loving-kindnesses, it also offered me a concrete Path that was testable and practicable, which gave great meaning to my own life.

I can see that. But I needed more, even if that relationship with Christ is entirely based on faith.

 

[mindlight]

What if I say that I do not find those evidences credible, and that I favor the evidences given by the side that suggest that Jesus did not exist (as the Bible teaches)?

Not true; under your standard, I can also say "We know that King Bimbisara of the Magadha Empire and King Ajatasattu his son, along with King Pasenadi of the Kingdom of Kosala, were disciples of the Buddha as they were very frequently found in conversation with the Buddha in the Buddhist scriptures, which makes them historical persons and situates the Buddha at a definite moment and place in human history."

There are no written records of Buddhist scriptures before about 400 years after his death, so who knows what he actually said and who knows if he even actually existed. Your scriptures refer to certain kings that may have existed but where is the evidence connecting the life of the Buddha with these kings from contemporary records?

 

[zippy2006]

I see Buddhism as offering some practices and teachings for good mental health and morality. So it is very practical. But for me it is not enough. It seems impersonal...

I agree with this much. Buddhism strikes me more like a problem solving technique than a dynamic relationship with the transcendent God. Christianity is the richer religion without a doubt.

If there is a bit less proof and evidence involved in Christianity... well that's just what happens when you deal with Persons rather than deterministic objects of interaction and study.

 

[ananda]

There are no written records of Buddhist scriptures before about 400 years after his death, so who knows what he actually said and who knows if he even actually existed.

Moving the goalposts ... It makes no difference to me if the records were allegedly written 20-100 years after his alleged life, or 400 years after. Besides, I don't know anyone who can accurately recall conversations they might or might not have had from 20 years ago.

Even in the legal sphere, there's a reason for a relatively short limit of time associated with the statute of limitations - evidence can be lost, including memory.

Your scriptures refer to certain kings that may have existed but where is the evidence connecting the life of the Buddha with these kings from contemporary records?

I don't know of any, nor of any way to directly and personally authenticate that any alleged record is contemporary with the Buddha's own life, just like alleged records are allegedly contemporary with Jesus's supposed life.

 

[ananda]

... that's just what happens when you deal with Persons rather than deterministic objects of interaction and study.

We also have Persons, in the figure of the Buddha and the other enlightened Ones in the Sangha.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

We also have Persons, in the figure of the Buddha and the other enlightened Ones in the Sangha.

In your belief does the Buddha still exist?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I agree with this much. Buddhism strikes me more like a problem solving technique than a dynamic relationship with the transcendent God. Christianity is the richer religion without a doubt.

That is why am not a Buddhist. And yet I realize that my faith may be fantasy.