Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?

[Tolworth John]

Which doesn’t change the fact that Judas was one of those that the Father gave Jesus, but was lost!

Thus, being given to Jesus by the father doesn’t prove unconditional Election, because that didn’t save Judas, did it?

I'm not trying to prove unconditional election, I'm staying what the Bible teaches.
In this case Judas was given to Jesus with a question mark over him to indicate this one will be lost.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Calvinists don’t like to admit that their doctrine states that absolutely nothing can happen without God decreeing it, which makes God the author of sin, since the fall of Adam and Eve was therefore decreed by God.

Then after causing men to be in need of salvation, being born totally depraved and spiritually dead - so that they can’t even have faith until first being regenerated and made alive - God decided and decreed that He would arbitrarily withhold regeneration from most of His creation, thus preventing them from being able to believe - yet damn them to eternal hell, for not believing!

Since Jesus said most of humanity will be damned and only a few will be saved, then the Calvinist God has decreed that He will purposely and with malicious intent, withhold salvation from most of His creation!

If we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we all die. Why be angry because God chose to be generous with some? Is not this whole creation his to do with as he pleases? Where do you get withholding, then? Malicious intent???? It is not God, but the sinner, who willfully turned against his own creator!

 

[John Mullally]

Who says so besides you?

This is not a serious question - you are spamming. By timestamp, just 7 minutes prior to this mocking question, you responded to a "Spiritual Jew" post that was supporting me on this topic.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I'm not trying to prove unconditional election, I'm staying what the Bible teaches.
In this case Judas was given to Jesus with a question mark over him to indicate this one will be lost.

Yes he was the son of perdition/destruction which is the same name given to the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and judas in John 17:12. The word perdition means eternal damnation, doomed to destruction. When a person is called the son of perdition it has the meaning of a person in an unredeemable state, someone who is already eternally damned while he is still alive. It is not a description for anyone who is of God but just the opposite- of the devil.

There is no getting around the fact judas was never saved and these passages make that fact absolutely clear. Nowhere in scripture does it say that Judas was saved or possessed eternal life. In fact it declares just the opposite. The bible teaches that Judas was the son of perdition from the beginning. He was created for the very purpose and role as the traitor who would betray Jesus. Jesus said of Judas it would of been better off for him to not even been born than to betray the Son of Man.

John 6:63-65
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. 65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

John 6:70-71
Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray Him.)

John 12:4-6
But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 13:10-11
10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For He knew who was going to betray Him, and that was why He said not every one was clean.

John 17:12
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:23-25
23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"

Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."

Acts 1:16-19
16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Acts 1:24-26
Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Psalms 109:4-8
In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.

6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

 

[Dave L]

This is not a serious question - you are spamming. By timestamp, just 7 minutes prior to this mocking question, you responded to "Spiritual Jew" who delivered some excellent remarks concerning this very topic and that bolster my claims on the parable.

I would like to see known commentators who back your claim. Is that too much?

 

[John Mullally]

I would like to see known commentators who back your claim. Is that too much?

Here is one, you can google for a near endless supply. It is literally the first one I found and it is in total agreement.
What is the meaning of the Parable of the Wedding Feast? | GotQuestions.org

 

[RickReads]

I would like to see known commentators who back your claim. Is that too much?

I back his claim.

 

[Dave L]

Here is one, you can google for a near endless supply. Spam somebody else.
What is the meaning of the Parable of the Wedding Feast? | GotQuestions.org

Got Questions = Liberty U. I don't trust them. Give some historic names and references.

 

[RickReads]

Got Questions = Liberty U. I don't trust them. Give some historic names and references.

Reminds me of the guy who denounced Encyclopedia Brittanica

 

[John Mullally]

Give some historic names and references.

I trust you can find your own sources and hopefully move on to find inner peace

 

[RickReads]

Reminds me of the guy who denounced Encyclopedia Brittanica

I`m not kidding John. It happened in the Universalists: How do you explain the "problem passages"? thread.

 

[RickReads]

NO

I`m not kidding John. It happened in the Universalists: How do you explain the "problem passages"? thread.

 

[John Mullally]

I`m not kidding John. It happened in the Universalists: How do you explain the "problem passages"? thread.

You gave me a good laugh. Thanks!

The NO was directed to the guy demanding I give sources he approves of in the age of Google - nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

[RickReads]

You gave me a good laugh. Thanks!

The NO was directed to the guy demanding I give sources he approves of in the age of Google - nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Google sources are a good defense. I usually don`t read em I just throw them down to people who challenge my opinions

 

[John Mullally]

Google sources are a good defense. I usually don`t read em I just throw them down to people who challenge my opinions

Funny.

And if the source is Calvanistic, you can expect it to be long and convoluted (like Mad Magazine Spy vs Spy {showing my age}).

When I first became a Christian, that (above) and their rampant judgementalism (watch American Gospel on Netflix, produced by Calvanists, for their current skewing) was my first clue to avoid the Calvanist dogma. Jesus said you must enter the kingdom like a child - its not a game of Chess - only believe.

Keeping our disagreements internal: we all need to consider this:

Mark 9:38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” 39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.​

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Who says so besides you?

Millions of people. Your understanding of Matthew 22:1-14 is completely flawed. When Jesus said at the end of the parable, "For many are invited (called), but few are chosen" what do you think He was saying? Many and few of what? And chosen for what?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

If we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we all die. Why be angry because God chose to be generous with some? Is not this whole creation his to do with as he pleases? Where do you get withholding, then? Malicious intent???? It is not God, but the sinner, who willfully turned against his own creator!

Define "willfully". Was he capable of doing anything but turning against His own Creator? If not, then what is the reason God gets angry with someone like that?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I would like to see known commentators who back your claim. Is that too much?

Matthew Henry’s Bible Commentary (concise)
<< Matthew 21 | Matthew 22 | Matthew 23 >>
(Read all of Matthew 22)
Complete Concise

Chapter Contents
The parable of the marriage feast. (1-14)

Commentary on Matthew 22:1-14
(Read Matthew 22:1-14)

The provision made for perishing souls in the gospel, is represented by a royal feast made by a king, with eastern liberality, on the marriage of his son. Our merciful God has not only provided food, but a royal feast, for the perishing souls of his rebellious creatures. There is enough and to spare, of every thing that can add to our present comfort and everlasting happiness, in the salvation of his Son Jesus Christ. The guests first invited were the Jews. When the prophets of the Old Testament prevailed not, nor John the Baptist, nor Christ himself, who told them the kingdom of God was at hand, the apostles and ministers of the gospel were sent, after Christ's resurrection, to tell them it was come, and to persuade them to accept the offer. The reason why sinners come not to Christ and salvation by him, is, not because they cannot, but because they will not. Making light of Christ, and of the great salvation wrought out by him, is the damning sin of the world. They were careless. Multitudes perish for ever through mere carelessness, who show no direct aversion, but are careless as to their souls. Also the business and profit of worldly employments hinder many in closing with the Saviour. Both farmers and merchants must be diligent; but whatever we have of the world in our hands, our care must be to keep it out of our hearts, lest it come between us and Christ. The utter ruin coming upon the Jewish church and nation, is here represented. Persecution of Christ's faithful ministers fills up the measure of guilt of any people. The offer of Christ and salvation to the Gentiles was not expected; it was such a surprise as it would be to wayfaring men, to be invited to a royal wedding-feast. The design of the gospel is to gather souls to Christ; all the children of God scattered abroad, John 10:16; 11:52. The case of hypocrites is represented by the guest that had not on a wedding-garment. It concerns all to prepare for the scrutiny; and those, and those only, who put on the Lord Jesus, who have a Christian temper of mind, who live by faith in Christ, and to whom he is all in all, have the wedding-garment. The imputed righteousness of Christ, and the sanctification of the Spirit, are both alike necessary. No man has the wedding-garment by nature, or can form it for himself. The day is coming, when hypocrites will be called to account for all their presumptuous intruding into gospel ordinances, and usurpation of gospel privileges. Take him away. Those that walk unworthy of Christianity, forfeit all the happiness they presumptuously claimed. Our Saviour here passes out of the parable into that which it teaches. Hypocrites go by the light of the gospel itself down to utter darkness. Many are called to the wedding-feast, that is, to salvation, but few have the wedding-garment, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctification of the Spirit. Then let us examine ourselves whether we are in the faith, and seek to be approved by the King.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Define "willfully". Was he capable of doing anything but turning against His own Creator? If not, then what is the reason God gets angry with someone like that?

And......around we go.......

Per Google:

will·ful·ly
/ˈwilfəlē/

adverb

1. 1.
   with the intention of causing harm; deliberately.
   "she denies four charges of willfully neglecting a patient"
   
   
2. 2.
   with a stubborn and determined intention to do as one wants, regardless of the consequences.
   "he had willfully ignored the evidence"

 

[Dave L]

Millions of people. Your understanding of Matthew 22:1-14 is completely flawed. When Jesus said at the end of the parable, "For many are invited (called), but few are chosen" what do you think He was saying? Many and few of what? And chosen for what?

Was he speaking to wicked Jews about national repentance? Or to believers about turning from their sins?