Do People Believe Homosexuality Still Abomination To God?

[Tony B]

I am also happy to stand up to those who hold bibles and try to associate black people with criminals. Is that foolish? Does that mean I am saying God is hateful?

I'd be standing alongside of you with that, but that is not what this post is about.

 

[Bro.T]

We must remember brothers and sisters, Moses was on mount Horeb for forty days and forty nights. He received many more laws than the Ten Commandments. For example, there were more laws made between Moses and the Lord that were not classified as one of the ten. Take a look at Deuteronomy 29:1:

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. (Deuteronomy 29:1)

Notice what the scripture says, “beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.” We see that other Laws were given to Moses alongside the covenant (Ten Commandments). An individual might say, “Those laws were for the tribes of Israel.” Well, let’s see if the Lords laws only apply to the sons and daughters of Jacob.

Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 24:22)

One manner of law for Israel, as well as for the rest of the sons of Adam.
Let’s back up to Leviticus the 18th chapter and start at the 22nd verse.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: (Leviticus 18:22-24)

Note what the scripture says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Note something else in this set of scriptures. “Defile not yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you.” This statement should have a person shaking in their boots.

When the Lord cast out the Canaanites, He sent the children of Israel into these countries to cast these nations out because of sin. The sons of Jacob did not go alone to do battle. His mighty angels went with them as long as they kept themselves from sin.

This is not a game sisters and brothers; the God of the creation is serious. When He returns at His second coming He will deal with man face to face. We must keep ourselves from willful sin.

But, people try to make excuses for everything that is contrary to the word of God. As seen by modern medicine’s explanation of homosexuality: “With the birth of modern psychiatry, homosexuality came to be viewed widely as less a sin than a sickness. This attitude derived from unscientific research into the origin and nature of homosexuality, unscientific because based solely on studies of maladjusted psychiatric patients. Theories arising from such research suggested that disorders in family relationships, particularly mother-son relationships, give rise to homosexual behavior. Such theories, based on the assumption that homosexuals are necessarily psychologically abnormal, are not convincing. Quote from Grolier multimedia encyclopedia).

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:14-15)

Homosexuality is not an abnormality; it is a result of an individual’s own sexual desires. Once this takes place, what happens? Note what the verse says, “Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” This death is the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

 

[Quartermaine]

I'd be standing alongside of you with that, but that is not what this post is about.

but it is.

right now you are saying that it is wrong to falsely associate a minority with murders and thieves and rapists that trying to paint a minority as this is a sick and evil thing to do. -- well at least you are saying that it wrong to do it to one minority. you are also saying that this hateful thing is not hateful at all if the lies are about a different minority. trying to associate a minority with criminals is a horrible and hate full thing to do but it doesn't become a good thing when you change the minority it's directed at. all it does is reveal your prejudice and intolerance and arrogance that you get to be proud about doing something horrible to SOME people

 

[Quartermaine]

We must remember brothers and sisters, Moses was on mount Horeb for forty days and forty nights. He received many more laws than the Ten Commandments. For example, there were more laws made between Moses and the Lord that were not classified as one of the ten. Take a look at Deuteronomy 29:1:

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. (Deuteronomy 29:1)

Notice what the scripture says, “beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.” We see that other Laws were given to Moses alongside the covenant (Ten Commandments). An individual might say, “Those laws were for the tribes of Israel.” Well, let’s see if the Lords laws only apply to the sons and daughters of Jacob.

Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 24:22)

One manner of law for Israel, as well as for the rest of the sons of Adam.
Let’s back up to Leviticus the 18th chapter and start at the 22nd verse.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: (Leviticus 18:22-24)

Note what the scripture says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Note something else in this set of scriptures. “Defile not yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you.” This statement should have a person shaking in their boots.

When the Lord cast out the Canaanites, He sent the children of Israel into these countries to cast these nations out because of sin. The sons of Jacob did not go alone to do battle. His mighty angels went with them as long as they kept themselves from sin.

This is not a game sisters and brothers; the God of the creation is serious. When He returns at His second coming He will deal with man face to face. We must keep ourselves from willful sin.

But, people try to make excuses for everything that is contrary to the word of God. As seen by modern medicine’s explanation of homosexuality: “With the birth of modern psychiatry, homosexuality came to be viewed widely as less a sin than a sickness. This attitude derived from unscientific research into the origin and nature of homosexuality, unscientific because based solely on studies of maladjusted psychiatric patients. Theories arising from such research suggested that disorders in family relationships, particularly mother-son relationships, give rise to homosexual behavior. Such theories, based on the assumption that homosexuals are necessarily psychologically abnormal, are not convincing. Quote from Grolier multimedia encyclopedia).

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:14-15)

Homosexuality is not an abnormality; it is a result of an individual’s own sexual desires. Once this takes place, what happens? Note what the verse says, “Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” This death is the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

so of course you strictly adhere to Leviticus 21:16-23

 

[Bro.T]

so of course you strictly adhere to Leviticus 21:16-23

Now Paul said in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Goodness why is this thread even a topic to those who read and follow God's Word. Does God change his mind? Go tell that to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Tony B]

but it is.

right now you are saying that it is wrong to falsely associate a minority with murders and thieves and rapists that trying to paint a minority as this is a sick and evil thing to do. -- well at least you are saying that it wrong to do it to one minority. you are also saying that this hateful thing is not hateful at all if the lies are about a different minority. trying to associate a minority with criminals is a horrible and hate full thing to do but it doesn't become a good thing when you change the minority it's directed at. all it does is reveal your prejudice and intolerance and arrogance that you get to be proud about doing something horrible to SOME people

I can't see how your post is relevant to the OP, which is titled:
"Do People Believe Homosexuality Still Abomination To God?"

People that are more concerned about pleasing God than their fellow man, have all stated that God by His own words has declared homosexual behaviour an abomination, and therefore so must they. This has been my argument, and theirs. Where your argument is coming from is open to opinion, but it can't be from God, He won't/can't contradict Himself.

If this discussion was happening outside of a Christian forum, then your personal opinion would be tolerable. But when discussions happen inside of a Christian forum, only God's opinion can be welcomed, and accepted.

 

[zoidar]

God created all things good, including sex.

Romans 1:26 "For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another."

People are born sinners by nature but that does not mean that every last thing is sin. It's ok to marry, to have children, to eat properly, to work, to have a place to live and put food on the table. They are all natural activities that God does not condemn. Sex is not inherently evil any more than eating or drinking. It is when God's boundaries are crossed that behaviour becomes sinful. God is just as displeased with gluttony as He is with adultery. Sin is sin. God makes no distinction.

God created everything good in Eden. After the fall the world was no longer good, even a lot of good things remained.

How does Paul use the word "natural" ? I think he is using it from what God intended with the world, with the creation. What do you think? Do you think Paul would say that all sins are unnatural in this context?

1 Timothy 1:8-11
But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

He is also saying "dishonorable passions", to whom? To the sinful Greek or a man of faith? I would say to a man of faith. The sinful Greek (the natural man? ) does he even see it as dishonorable?

I do think God does a distincion of sin, but that's another discussion.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

No. You have had more than enough proof given you from scripture to check you, but you've decided to continue in your arrogance and/or ignorance and promote an argument that is anti-God. If you were of a humble heart and a spirit that was alive, you would have already accepted the scriptures as presented to you by other posters, as truth, and turned.

And the people that have ticked the approval of your post are of the same persuasion as you, and will likewise earn the rebuke of our Living and Loving God.

Someone has reported my posts to you to the "moderators". Below is the reply I have sent them to their warning. If you have ears to hear, listen:

"Don't bother with any more warnings George, I'll be leaving. The Lord God has used up my time here, and you and your colleagues have been judged, and stand condemned. You're more concerned about not offending your fellow blind sheep, than you are of offending God. You are worse than unbelievers, blind sheep leading the blind, and the wrath of God is poised over you."

Have you had an experience with God or Jesus?
Has God and Jesus come to you before?
Share that experience with us in detail??
What was it like, what was God like?

 

[hedrick]

Goodness why is this thread even a topic to those who read and follow God's Word. Does God change his mind? Go tell that to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

First, no one that I know thinks God has changed his mind. Rather, we think that gay Christians are not the same thing as pagans who abandoned their natural orientation when they got jaded. Paul is very clear about who he's talking about. We know a lot about pagan sexual behavior. It's very far from gay Christian sexual ethics.

Second, Sodom and Gomorrah were not condemned for being gay, but for attacking God's representatives.

The one thing I will grant you is that we do not follow the Leviticus Holiness Code. If you want to, that's fine, but Jesus, Paul, and the council in Acts 15 disagrees. The usual understanding of that is not that God changed his mind, but that it was intended just for Jews.

 

[Aussie Pete]

God created everything good in Eden. After the fall the world was no longer good, even a lot of good things remained.

How does Paul use the word "natural" ? I think he is using it from what God intended with the world, with the creation. What do you think? Do you think Paul would say that all sins are unnatural in this context?

He is also saying "dishonorable passions", to whom? To the sinful Greek or a man of faith? I would say to a man of faith. The sinful Greek (the natural man? ) does he even se it as dishonorable?

I do think God does a distincion of sin, but that's another discussion.

It does not matter what men think of sin. God tells it like it is. You need to remember that the tree of knowledge was of both good and evil. An individual does not need to sin in the legalistic sense to be separated from God. We are all born that way. The wrath of God is not revealed because people marry, raise a family, work for a living and live normal lives. Romans 1 explains why God's wrath abides on the world. By the way, the world is not God's creation. It is the system that Satan created with the unwitting cooperation of fallen man.

Sin is sin. However, there are certainly different consequences for different sins. Some sins will kill the sinner, others defile his conscience. There is also a vast difference between what men understand as sin and what God says. His definition is "whatever is not of faith."

 

[zoidar]

It does not matter what men think of sin. God tells it like it is.

Fully agree! Just discussing the use of the word "natural".

An individual does not need to sin in the legalistic sense to be separated from God. We are all born that way.

Of course!

The wrath of God is not revealed because people marry, raise a family, work for a living and live normal lives.

Well, it's sin that reveals the wrath of God. Isn't it? "Normal" lives include sins. Of course God's wrath isn't upon the righteous things of the world.

1 Timothy 1:8-11
But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted

Sin is sin. However, there are certainly different consequences for different sins. Some sins will kill the sinner, others defile his conscience. There is also a vast difference between what men understand as sin and what God says. His definition is "whatever is not of faith."

Agree! Though, I don't understand what is meant by "whatever is not of faith is sin."

 

[Quartermaine]

Now Paul said in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

that's nice. but you do strictly adhere to Lev 21:16-23 don't you?

 

[Quartermaine]

I can't see how your post is relevant to the OP, which is titled:
"Do People Believe Homosexuality Still Abomination To God?"

God also says that lying is an abomination...like lying when trying to associate a minority with murders and thieves and rapists. or at least its wrong when it's done to SOME minorities.

 

[ironbjorn]

I believe in what the Bible says, and I believe in the interpretation of the scriptures throughout all of church history, which interpreted homosexuality to be sinful and abominable, despite modern mental gymnastics and reinterpretation.

 

[food4thought]

that's nice. but you do strictly adhere to Lev 21:16-23 don't you?

Hi Quartermaine (and anyone else interested). Let me start by reiterating some of what I said earlier in this thread and in another: in every circumstance, we are commanded to be loving, gentle, and kind... even when we are correcting those who are in error. It sorrows my heart to see some of things said on this thread, and some of the things said in the broader society regarding this debate. To be honest, it also bothers me that this site does not allow for the free expression of a defense for the position of those who believe that LGBTQ+ sexuality is not sinful (even though I am convinced that the Bible is painfully clear on the subject, and they are wrong). Yet since this is the current situation, I want to be clear that I am not inviting you to debate me on the topic.

That said, if I could demonstrate to you with clarity that the New Testament absolutely declares same sex relations to be sinful, would it make any difference to you? I am asking this because it would take some time and effort for me to write it out in a clear way; and, if nobody cares, I would rather spend my time doing something more productive.

God bless you all as you seek Him;
Michael

 

[pescador]

I believe in what the Bible says, and I believe in the interpretation of the scriptures throughout all of church history, which interpreted homosexuality to be sinful and abominable, despite modern mental gymnastics and reinterpretation.

So therefore we are supposed to despise LGBTQs, correct?

Do you want to know a basic Biblical truth that doesn't involve "modern mental gymnastics and reinterpretation"? Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. I don't see that attitude present in your post.

There are many other activities that are sinful and abominable, but giving one's self an excuse to disobey God (who loves the world) by judging someone who hasn't done any harm to you is a serious sin.

 

[ironbjorn]

So therefore we are supposed to despise LGBTQs, correct?

Do you want to know a basic Biblical truth that doesn't involve "modern mental gymnastics and reinterpretation"? Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. I don't see that attitude present in your post.

There are many other activities that are sinful and abominable, but giving one's self an excuse to disobey God (who loves the world) by judging someone who hasn't done any harm to you is a serious sin.

The only thing you saw in my post is two facts. Fact one, that in both the OT and the NT, homosexuality is a sin; and fact two, the church has always interpreted it as a sin until the modern era in which gay is supposed to be yay. Nowhere, at all, period, was it ever said or implied that we should hate sinners. There are lots of sins. Here in this thread about homosexuality we are talking about, surprise, homosexuality. "Yeah but THIS sin..." doesn't make a single difference and is a weak retort.

 

[Dok Bantis]

A lot of bad faith arguing in this thread in defense of same-sex behavior which is clearly contraindicated by the Bible. From the slander of those who hold to the clear teachings of the Bible to the comparison of sexual acts to racial traits.

A good, logical and respectful debate can be good, and YouTube has many. Voddie Baucham and James White both do a good job of defending the traditional Biblical point of view (in separate videos) while expressing appropriate Christian love toward those with same-sex attraction.

The answer to the question in the thread's title is clear: Yes, many many faithful Christians still actually believe the words of the Bible. And yes, most of even those who do believe same-sex activity to be sinful still feel appropriate Christian love and compassion toward sinners of all types. Not all sins, however, have fabulously wealthy lobbying groups and scores of multimedia missionaries devoted to creating and enforcing total agreement that this sin must be uniquely and uniformly celebrated by everyone without fail. This causes a degree of pushback against the parades, propaganda, and grade-school curricula which is unnecessary when addressing most other sins.

 

[hedrick]

A lot of bad faith arguing in this thread in defense of same-sex behavior which is clearly contraindicated by the Bible. From the slander of those who hold to the clear teachings of the Bible to the comparison of sexual acts to racial traits.

A good, logical and respectful debate can be good, and YouTube has many. Voddie Baucham and James White both do a good job of defending the traditional Biblical point of view (in separate videos) while expressing appropriate Christian love toward those with same-sex attraction.

How can you have a respectful debate when you think the other side isn’t operating in good faith? The Biblical case against Christian gays is based on removing text from its context. Pointing that out is hardly operating in bad faith.