Pope backs same sex unions

[Cis.jd]

Hello Cis. I don't think you're understanding my point. A 'church' promoting same sex relationships in society and then just hoping to freeze the issue won't work. Once the genie is out of the bottle the end point is persecution for those Christians who refuse to accept SSM. The Pope is either extremely naive or an apostate. It's far better for everyone who claims to be a Christian leader to share what the bible says, rather than making stuff up IMO. God Bless

I understand your point. The church didn't accept or promote it, it's just respecting it based on civil law.

 

[RDKirk]

Of course, it helps if you don't lift partial verses out of context...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (complete), "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God." Out of the ten behaviors listed two involve homosexuals; you conveniently don't mention the other eight.

And we already know that unbelievers will not inherit the kingdom of God even if they don't do any of those things. Christians are supposed to be "good persons," but being a "good person" does not equate to salvation.

 

[zippy2006]

Not at all.

The RCC has long made a distinction between Papal pronouncements that are specifically "magisterial teaching"--and thus necessarily infallible--and those Papal statements that are not "magisterial teaching," and thus not necessarily infallible.

What the Pope has said about civil unions (and about all civil activities) is not Papal magisterial teaching. This falls squarely in line with what both Peter and Paul had to say about Church moral authority over unbelievers: The Church has none.

Your distinctions in this thread have been very poor. You keep making distinctions on sacred/profane, Church/State, infallible/non-infallible, but the arguments you are drawing are invalid (and fallacious). Just because the Pope's statement was not infallible does not mean that what the Church says about those outside of the Church does not fall within magisterial teaching, nor does it mean that the Church has no moral authority over unbelievers, nor did Peter and Paul say that. Lots and lots of falsities.

As @chilehed correctly observed, your position leads to the conclusion that morality isn't objective--that morality does not apply to non-believers. No good Christian or Catholic believes that, including the Pope.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You think Hedrick is referencing John 6???

It is one of Evangelicals misreading of Scripture...but no, not specifically.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So when it comes to moral issues the Pope is or is not infallible ?

He is, when he is teaching the entire church. Which he was not, in this case.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hello Root. I think this has clearly gone beyond just 'acting charitably'. It's advocating giving legal weight to something which is a sin. God Bless

That's fine. I don't think he has any authority to give legal weight to it. I completely disagree that it should be legalized. But I try to give him some benefit of doubt. Maybe I'm just too nice.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The issue of homosexuality cannot be dismissed as a worldly issue. It's a Kingdom of God issue as 1 Corinthians 6:9 makes clear. Of course, if the pope is only interested in pleasing the world, he is going about it the right way.

True if you are trying to live in the Kingdom of God. I would say that those who seek worldly pleasure via hetero or homosexuality outside of marriage are not seeking such.

 

[lismore]

Perhaps it's a time to return to biblical standards, like give clear and concise biblical answers, in a gentle and respectful way. Someone asks about homosexuality- 'here's what the bible says'. The truth might offend, but if there is no conviction then how can there be repentance?

 

[lismore]

Unless they're believers, bible passages are irrelevant to them.

Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

 

[ReesePiece23]

the verbally abusive.

And HOW much of this goes on?!

Some of the most acid tongued individuals I've met were Christian in one form or another. It's not a universal observation but it's certainly been mine.

Leave it to Him to judge - that's my advice. Get on with your own life. (Not YOU personally, obviously.)

 

[lismore]

I understand your point. The church didn't accept or promote it, it's just respecting it based on civil law.

I see. I'm just saying that it's opening Pandora's box. What happens next, the pressure to move further down the road, may not be under your or anyone's control. God Bless

 

[RDKirk]

Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them -- John 6:44

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them." --John 6:65

"Hearing" happens when the Father has enabled them to hear.

 

[RDKirk]

Your distinctions in this thread have been very poor. You keep making distinctions on sacred/profane, Church/State, infallible/non-infallible, but the arguments you are drawing are invalid (and fallacious). Just because the Pope's statement was not infallible does not mean that what the Church says about those outside of the Church does not fall within magisterial teaching, nor does it mean that the Church has no moral authority over unbelievers, nor did Peter and Paul say that. Lots and lots of falsities.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? --1 Corinthians 5

 

[lismore]

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them -- John 6:44

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them." --John 6:65

"Hearing" happens when the Father has enabled them to hear.

I'm thinking it's better to share the scriptures than to waffle or make something up. At least then there's an opportunity for the person to be saved and we'll all be singing from the same hymn sheet. God Bless

 

[RDKirk]

I'm thinking it's better to share the scriptures than to waffle or make something up. At least then there's an opportunity for the person to be saved and we'll all be singing from the same hymn sheet. God Bless

We can never know which persons have been "enabled," so we don't withhold the gospel from anyone, but that doesn't mean it's effective with everyone.

And not all scripture is actually gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
So when it comes to moral issues the Pope is or is not infallible ?

He is, when he is teaching the entire church. Which he was not, in this case.

So then in your POV he is fallible in this case? and... is he wrong in making that statement in your POV?

 

[tz620q]

I posted the link from the Guardian because usually I find them to be quite accurate and also you don't have to join to read the full article. God Bless

Are you kidding about the Guardian? They have admitted that they love to publish stories about the Pope because it doesn't cost them membership. Nearly every story I have ran down from the Guardian turned out to be quotes taken out of context and slanted towards their opinion.

 

[lismore]

Are you kidding about the Guardian? They have admitted that they love to publish stories about the Pope because it doesn't cost them membership. Nearly every story I have ran down from the Guardian turned out to be quotes taken out of context and slanted towards their opinion.

It's one of the better ones in the category that you don't have to join to view a story, a couple are better, but I couldn't post the link because you'd have to join to read them.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Perhaps it's a time to return to biblical standards, like give clear and concise biblical answers, in a gentle and respectful way. Someone asks about homosexuality- 'here's what the bible says'. The truth might offend, but if there is no conviction then how can there be repentance?

Priests do this a lot, especially when asked about a certain situation.

 

[zippy2006]

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? --1 Corinthians 5

Keep reading: "God judges those outside..." (v. 13). How are those outside judged? By the natural law, as Paul explains:

When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Romans 2)​