Surely Premils must invent 2 future glorifications days separated by 1000 years+?

[sovereigngrace]

The prophet Ezekiel reveals this `lesson.` eg. `And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and the unholy. and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. In controversy they shall stand as judges and judge according to my judgments. They shall keep my laws and my statutes in all my appointed meetings and they shall hallow my Sabbaths....

And on the day that he (priest goes to the sanctuary to minister in the sanctuary, he must offer his sin offering in the inner court, says the Lord God. It shall be, in regard to their inheritance, that I am their inheritance....` (Ez. 44: 23, & 24, 27 & 28)

As to the Body of Christ being grafted in to Israel, God`s word does not say that. The root is holy, and nourishes the branches. Israel is certainly never holy and can never nourish us only Christ is holy and can nourish us.

`...the root is holy.......grafted in among them, and with them become a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree.` (Rom. 11: 16 & 17)

You are inventing a Christ-rejecting people and placing the favor of God upon them and then inventing an imaginary future age to accommodate them. These OT passages are long-fulfilled. It is time for Dispys to move out of the OT and into the NT.

God has only got one people - those who are born of the Sprit of God of all races. That is it! Everyone else is of their father the devil. I know that is hard for you to swallow in the light of what you have been taught, but that is biblical Christianity. The old covenant is gone forever. It will never return. The new covenant is an eternal covenant.

Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Jesus was our signpost to heaven. He was our direction. He was the way! What is more, when men saw Christ they saw truth, when they heard Christ they heard truth, when they embraced Christ they embraced truth. He also was the embodiment of eternal life. Without Him is spiritual death.

Jesus said, in John 10:1, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.” He then goes on to explain, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture” (John 10:9).

Favor with God can come only through Jesus Christ. He is heaven’s only means of access to God. Acts 4:12 says, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

This is God’s only way to heaven. Christ is the center-point of salvation. We therefore see that Christ alone is our only way of access to heaven. There is no alternative arrangement pertaining to race or any other distinction. 1 Corinthians 3:11 states, “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”

Of course, Christ is the Rock that the believer stands on. He is the only spiritual foundation for man. Men either build their house upon that Rock or build it upon sand. Sand is self! A house properly built upon the Rock stands firm in the midst of the storm but the house built upon the sand falls apart. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 expressly states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time”

This couldn’t be any clearer! There is no Plan B. There is no back-doors into heaven. There is no alternative salvation. There is no other means of man gaining favor with God! There is no other way to become a child of God. There is no other path to be God’s one of God’s elect.

John the Baptist proclaimed in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

There is nothing vague, ambiguous or complicated here. God only sees those in Christ and those not in Christ. There is also no room for fence-sitting here. If a Jew or Gentile (in the Old Testament or the New Testament) loves the Messiah Christ He is one of God's chosen, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!! Basically: accept Jesus and God accepts you, reject Him and God rejects you.

Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

Ok, what does this mean? Simple: those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ, don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are therefore under condemnation and are of their father the devil.

I John 2:22-23 solemnly asks, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

Q. Does Israel overwhelmingly deny “that Jesus is the Christ” or Messiah?

A. Absolutely. Therefore, Judaism without Christ is a counterfeit religion. It is apostate! Any belief that denies Christ His rightful place as man's sole Redeemer is destined for destruction. Anyone that rejects Christ (1) is antichrist, (2) belongs to Satan, (3) is part of the kingdom of darkness and is (4) bound for the Lake of Fire.

1 John 5:12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

The teaching of Scripture couldn’t be plainer: Jews who do recognize Christ as Messiah are saved. Jews who do not recognize Christ as Messiah are lost. The only chosen people that God knows and accepts are those that accept His Son. The rest are of their father the devil.

2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

If a sinner refuses Christ, he refuses the Father. This couldn’t be clearer in Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”

So, those that reject Jesus, reject salvation. Those that reject Jesus, reject the Father. Those that reject Jesus, are children of the devil. This is seen throughout the inspired New Testament account.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:6: “blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”

We don’t need to speculate about what natural Israel currently thinks of Christ.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:30, “He that is not with me is against me.”

There is no neutrality with this Jesus. There is no room for fence-sitting when it comes to Him. You are either for Him or against Him.

Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”

God does not separate His elect up, He unites them together in Christ. In fact, there is nothing more unbiblical in this new covenant period than trying to divide up the people of God on the grounds of ethnicity. That is spiritual apartheid and runs completely to the New Testament plan of God to bring Jew and Gentile together equally in Christ. The whole mission of Jesus Christ in introducing the new covenant was to unite Jew and Gentile in salvation. Nothing could be clearer in the New Testament!

 

[Marilyn C]

The ones resurrected have incorruptible bodies. They procreate offspring with incorruptible bodies.

That is not in the millennium.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It is not division on ethnicity, but for God purposes through Christ.

Christ is the new covenant for all people not just us. I hear you making US the centre of God`s purposes.

Actually the word `bride` is used for `a time purpose,` and for an eternal purpose. (Rev. 19: 9, 21: 2)
The Body of Christ is NEVER called the bride.

Those who are not in Christ are of their father the devil and will be totally destroyed when Jesus comes.

 

[Marilyn C]

You are inventing a Christ-rejecting people and placing the favor of God upon them and then inventing an imaginary future age to accommodate them. These OT passages are long-fulfilled. It is time for Dispys to move out of the OT and into the NT.

God has only got one people - those who are born of the Sprit of God of all races. That is it! Everyone else is of their father the devil. I know that is hard for you to swallow in the light of what you have been taught, but that is biblical Christianity. The old covenant is gone forever. It will never return. The new covenant is an eternal covenant.

You haven`t understood God`s purpose in Christ.

So tell my why did God expect His new nation to fulfil what He said when they were just sinful people?

And who are the nations on the earth, (Rev. 21: 24)?

 

[Marilyn C]

Those who are not in Christ are of their father the devil and will be totally destroyed when Jesus comes.

Not so fast there SG. When the Lord judges the `NATIONS` of the earth it will be according to how they treated His people from the nation of Israel, `His brethren.` (Matt. 25: 40)

 

[Timtofly]

You need to finish it. He has been cast down. He has nothing to bring before the bar of God. The penalty has been fully paid.

Cast down after the church is completed.

Otherwise Jesus Christ was the mediator during the 4000 years between Adam and the Cross.

Paul claims Jesus Christ is the mediator of the church night and day, until the church is completed. Then Satan is out of a job, thus cast out.

That is why Satan demands 42 months on earth. He will not give up trying to control humanity in his own way. Remember Job? Satan will convince God that no one will turn to God from wickedness when he is in control.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

“Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah;
because the Accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them day and night before God,
has been thrown out!

It says Satan accuses our brothers, fellow Christians, day and night.

Did you miss the part about him being thrown out? That happened when Christ ascended to heaven. Satan can't accuse us anymore because our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. What can he accuse us of now, knowing that our sins have been forgiven? Nothing.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So it is in the millennium that people on earth will need `lessons` in what it meant for Christ to die and pay for their sins.

Where does scripture teach this? Please be specific in showing where these lessons are mentioned and that their purpose will be to teach people at that time "what it meant for Christ to die and pay for their sins".

You are trying to make those people like us, the Body of Christ with all our special privileges.

He must be trying to be like Paul.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

You seem to say that there is Jew and then there is Gentile and no one should try to make them alike. Paul says "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" and "there is no difference between Jew and Gentile". I side with Paul.

God made the nation of Israel with the full understanding that they as a nation could never do what He expected them to do. And we know that it is only through Christ that they will be able to rule the other nations of the world.

Where does scripture teach that the nation of Israel will rule the other nations of the world through Christ?

The prophet Ezekiel reveals this `lesson.` eg. `And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and the unholy. and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. In controversy they shall stand as judges and judge according to my judgments. They shall keep my laws and my statutes in all my appointed meetings and they shall hallow my Sabbaths....

And on the day that he (priest goes to the sanctuary to minister in the sanctuary, he must offer his sin offering in the inner court, says the Lord God. It shall be, in regard to their inheritance, that I am their inheritance....` (Ez. 44: 23, & 24, 27 & 28)

Why would sin offerings (animal sacrifices) be reinstituted when Christ already long ago made His "once for all" sacrifice? That would be a terrible insult to Christ and His work on the cross. The animal sacrifices of the old covenant were only a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice (Heb 10:1). They served their purpose already. There is no basis for thinking they will ever be reinstituted. Doing so would be blasphemous.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Those who turn to God in the millennium are not `Christians, part of the Body, ` but believers in God.

So, you think the following verses will be obsolete at that point?

Acts 4:11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

You are preaching a different gospel than the gospel of Christ. Paul warned about doing that.

Galatians 3:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

The prophet Micah tells us how many will go up to Jerusalem to learn the ways of the God of Jacob. They don`t have a personal relationship with Christ, as that purpose has gone when the Body becomes mature, (by the Holy Spirit) and taken to its eternal setting in glory. Those on the earth can become believers in the God of Jacob and learn of His ways. They have an earthly inheritance.

So when they die they will be in the grave till the Great White Throne and then with all those in the graves they will come forth to be judged on what they did.

`And they were judged, each one according to his works.` (Rev. 20: 13) That would be their motives.

Those in the book of life will go onto the new earth and be the nations of the saved. (Rev. 21: 24)

We need to remember that the Body of Christ is not judged (just given rewards) because the Lord has taken our judgments. Also the just men, (righteous) OT saints are not judged either as they are in the General Assembly awaiting the city which will come down out of heaven.

So all God`s people/family, however there are different inheritances for different groups. Christ made different realms and He will have His rulership under Him in each realm.

Why would God want to revert back to the inferior old covenant system again at any time in the future? Is the once for all sacrifice of Christ's shed blood going to somehow not be sufficient any longer at that point? How could that be?

 

[BABerean2]

So when God made the nation of Israel, a new nation and gave them the promise that they would rule the nations of the world, was God lying, or was it that sinful man had the power to stop God fulfilling His purpose for that nation?

In the interview below, how many times does Jacob Rothschild give credit to God for creating the modern State of Israel?

The Son answers the question below about those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".


Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


Christ said the kingdom would be given to another nation bearing fruit.

That "holy nation" which accepts the "chief cornerstone" is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10.


Dual Covenant Theology based on race is one of the greatest deceptions in the history of our faith. Paul warned against future use of genealogies in Titus 3:9.
Modern Dispensational Theology only works by ignoring Paul's warning.


.

 

[iamlamad]

The ones resurrected have incorruptible bodies. They procreate offspring with incorruptible bodies.

This is about as far-fetched as anything you hare written here. Can you show us scripture to back this idea up?

 

[iamlamad]

If some on this thread were GOD and got to make the decisions - NO ONE in Israel would stand a chance. They would not return in the nick of time to save Israel, but would allow the nations of the world to wipe them off the map, so to speak, at Armageddon.

Thank God: GOD Is God. He can see into the future (which no one on this thread can) and see the day that they will accept Him as their Messiah and morn that their ancestors murdered Him. He WILL rescue them in the nick of time and they will SEE HIM and ask Him about the wounds in His hands.

 

[BABerean2]

If some on this thread were GOD and got to make the decisions - NO ONE in Israel would stand a chance. They would not return in the nick of time to save Israel, but would allow the nations of the world to wipe them off the map, so to speak, at Armageddon.

Thank God: GOD Is God. He can see into the future (which no one on this thread can) and see the day that they will accept Him as their Messiah and morn that their ancestors murdered Him. He WILL rescue them in the nick of time and they will SEE HIM and ask Him about the wounds in His hands.

The Dispensationalist's claims that God will save millions of modern Orthodox Jews at His Second Coming ignores Christ returning in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

It ignores the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10, as quoted by the Apostle John in John 19:37, and on the Day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, when the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem and about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36) accepted Christ as their Savior.


Paul warned us to now avoid "genealogies" in Titus 3:9.
The Dual Covenant Theology of modern Dispensationalism cannot survive without ignoring Paul's warning.


There is now no difference between a naked native in the Amazon rainforest, and a modern descendant of Jacob living in the Middle East.
They both need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way.
There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament.


.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Not so fast there SG. When the Lord judges the `NATIONS` of the earth it will be according to how they treated His people from the nation of Israel, `His brethren.` (Matt. 25: 40)

Once again you totally avoided all the many Scriptures above that forbid your doctrine. You have to. This is becoming a pattern.

What you promote is heresy. This is Israelolotry. This shows the error Dispensationalism produces. Why would man be judged on how he treats a Christ-rejecting people who are under the judgment of God? Your teachers have taught you badly wrongly.

Jesus cursed the fig tree. He removed the kingdom from Israel and gave it to the NT Church.

You have replaced Christ with Israel in your thinking. Israel is the centerpoint of your theology. NT Christianity is all about Jesus and His elect people the Church.

The Scripture you reference is talking about how one treats God's people the Church. We are God's only chosen people. We are faithful Israel (both believing Jew and Gentile). We Gentiles have been grafted into God's only acceptable spiritual organism on planet earth.

Paul the apostle was a Christ-rejecting-Jew who persecuted the Church and was under God's wrath because of the same. When he turned to Christ all that changed. He immediately came under the favor and blessing of God. This is biblical Christianity.

 

[iamlamad]

The Dispensationalist's claims that God will save millions of modern Orthodox Jews at His Second Coming ignores Christ returning in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

It ignores the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10, as quoted by the Apostle John in John 19:37, and on the Day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, when the Spirit was poured out in Jerusalem and about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36) accepted Christ as their Savior.


Paul warned us to now avoid "genealogies" in Titus 3:9.
The Dual Covenant Theology of modern Dispensationalism cannot survive without ignoring Paul's warning.


There is now no difference between a naked native in the Amazon rainforest, and a modern descendant of Jacob living in the Middle East.
They both need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way.
There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament.


.

Sorry, wrong again. NOT a Dispy' claim at all. Go back and read Eze. 37 - 39.

 

[iamlamad]

Once again you totally avoided all the many Scriptures above that forbid your doctrine. You have to. This is becoming a pattern.

What you promote is heresy. This is Israelolotry. This shows the error Dispensationalism produces. Why would man be judged on how he treats a Christ-rejecting people who are under the judgment of God? Your teachers have taught you badly wrongly.

Jesus cursed the fig tree. He removed the kingdom from Israel and gave it to the NT Church.

You have replaced Christ with Israel in your thinking. Israel is the centerpoint of your theology. NT Christianity is all about Jesus and His elect people the Church.

The Scripture you reference is talking about how one treats God's people the Church. We are God's only chosen people. We are faithful Israel (both believing Jew and Gentile). We Gentiles have been grafted into God's only acceptable spiritual organism on planet earth.

Paul the apostle was a Christ-rejecting-Jew who persecuted the Church and was under God's wrath because of the same. This is biblical Christianity.

I see you have torn Ezekiel 37-39 out of your bible.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Cast down after the church is completed.

Otherwise Jesus Christ was the mediator during the 4000 years between Adam and the Cross.

Paul claims Jesus Christ is the mediator of the church night and day, until the church is completed. Then Satan is out of a job, thus cast out.

That is why Satan demands 42 months on earth. He will not give up trying to control humanity in his own way. Remember Job? Satan will convince God that no one will turn to God from wickedness when he is in control.

The opposite is the truth. It is only after his banishment from heaven that they overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. They are also persecuted for their testimony of Christ.

Your Pretrib theology forces you to reject much truth.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I see you have torn Ezekiel 37-39 out of your bible.

That is long fulfilled. Race means nothing today. Please move into the NT and you will see that. Premils always want to drag us back into the Old Testament. Thankfully, it is gone forever. It has been superseded by a greater covenant.

 

[iamlamad]

That is long fulfilled. Race means nothing today. Please move into the NT and you will see that. Premils always want to drag us back into the Old Testament. Thankfully, it is gone forever. It has been superseded by a greater covenant.

Gone forever! Ha ha ha ha ha! You are funny! to imagine God's prophecy is gone forever when it is still to be fulfilled!

Has God EVER failed to bring His word to pass?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Gone forever! Ha ha ha ha ha! You are funny! to imagine God's prophecy is gone forever when it is still to be fulfilled!

Has God EVER failed to bring His word to pass?

This is a major difference between Premillennialism and Amillennialism. Amillennialism recognizes the introduction of the new covenant and the abolition of the old superseded covenant. Amillennialism believes the cross was the final sacrifice for sin. Premillennialism rejects that. Amillennialism recognize God's people as those who have faith in Christ alone. Anyone else is of their father the devil according to Jesus. Premillennialism promotes false teaching on this subject. They're always venerating natural Christ-rejecting Israel.