Pope endorses same-sex civil unions in new documentary film

[Pavel Mosko]

Pope Francis endorsed gay civil unions for the first time as pope while being interviewed for a feature-length documentary that made its premiere at the Rome Film Festival on Wednesday.

Continued below.
Pope endorses same-sex civil unions in new documentary film

I'm almost expecting this to be a Babylon Bee link... but nope.


Pope Francis Declares That The Catholic Church Will No Longer Accept Donations Earned Via Capitalism


Pope Says Priests Should Deny Communion To People Who Drive SUVs


Pope Admits He's Making Up Pretty Much Everything As He Goes

 

[Michie]

I'm almost expecting this to be a Babylon Bee link... but nope.


Pope Francis Declares That The Catholic Church Will No Longer Accept Donations Earned Via Capitalism


Pope Says Priests Should Deny Communion To People Who Drive SUVs


Pope Admits He's Making Up Pretty Much Everything As He Goes

Thanks for the much needed laugh!

 

[narnia59]

Well it’s very charitable for you to say. But the apologetic days of old are over for me. Pope Francis’ actions and lack of clarification speaks for itself in my book. I admittedly think on the more pessimistic side when it comes to Pope Francis. God forgive me but I’m not going to be dishonest about it. He needs to speak up for the faithful and clarify. Which he feels no desire to do. He could stop all this media speculation and confusion himself but he refuses to do so. Wonder why??

I would say that what he's officially issued as part of his teaching office should be clarification enough. People are going to run with anything he says regardless. They did it with Pope Benedict too, just in a different direction.

I just heard Johnnette Benkovic Williams say on that radio that the pope was speaking in Spanish and the translation that's been reported is in error. She said he did not condone civil unions. He said that they should be protected by civil law. That's a big difference. And considering there are still some places in the world that advocate for the death penalty for homosexual behavior, quite appropriate.

I have no idea if she's right, she said it was covered in depth this morning on the Morning Glory program. I may try to listen to that later today if I have time.

 

[Michie]

I would say that what he's officially issued as part of his teaching office should be clarification enough. People are going to run with anything he says regardless. They did it with Pope Benedict too, just in a different direction.

I just heard Johnnette Benkovic Williams say on that radio that the pope was speaking in Spanish and the translation that's been reported is in error. She said he did not condone civil unions. He said that they should be protected by civil law. That's a big difference. And considering there are still some places in the world that advocate for the death penalty for homosexual behavior, quite appropriate.

I have no idea if she's right, she said it was covered in depth this morning on the Morning Glory program. I may try to listen to that later today if I have time.

I agree there should be laws to protect every citizen regardless of sexual preference. (Yes, I said preference). But given Francis’ history on this topic, I cannot help but look at this with a very pessimistic view. And yes, he needs to clarify. He ALWAYS needs to clarify as pope. But he lets people run with it. That’s shameful imo

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I would say that what he's officially issued as part of his teaching office should be clarification enough. People are going to run with anything he says regardless. They did it with Pope Benedict too, just in a different direction.

I just heard Johnnette Benkovic Williams say on that radio that the pope was speaking in Spanish and the translation that's been reported is in error. She said he did not condone civil unions. He said that they should be protected by civil law. That's a big difference. And considering there are still some places in the world that advocate for the death penalty for homosexual behavior, quite appropriate.

I have no idea if she's right, she said it was covered in depth this morning on the Morning Glory program. I may try to listen to that later today if I have time.

Why are we constantly left with the chore of parsing everything he says? He could easily correct any false perceptions that were made by simply issuing an update but he chooses not to.

 

[Michie]

Why are we constantly left with the chore of parsing everything he says? He could easily correct any false perceptions that were made by simply issuing an update but he chooses not to.

Exactly.

 

[Davidnic]

It seems part of this was chopped up from an interview a year ago with a Mexican TV station. And the documentary filmmaker (who is gay) has presented it as something the Pope said to him on camera in person, which is a lie, and now refuses to answer any further questions on where the footage has come from and the context.

And in the Mexican interview the context was about Argentina in the past and when as Bishop he said civil unions could happen as a way to try to prevent gay marriage from being legalized. And was strictly referring to economic and legal protections and not changing the teaching on the morality of homosexual actions.

Of course civil unions are in themselves a problem and would basically make a pseudo marriage, but even 24 hours from this story breaking we see issues with the footage itself, the intent of the filmmaker, and the context.

But this doesn't absolve the Pope from constantly creating a situation where the faithful have to parse and deconstruct and reconstruct what he says.

On the day we remember Pope St. John Paul II I pray the current successor of Peter have more discretion, clarity, and restraint.

Honestly a bigger story for me, and a bigger objection I have with the Pope.... Is continuing to engage with China at the expense of the Catholics there. Which is being overshadowed today by this story in a rather convenient fashion.

 

[narnia59]

Why are we constantly left with the chore of parsing everything he says? He could easily correct any false perceptions that were made by simply issuing an update but he chooses not to.

Why are we constantly letting sketchy media reporting whip us into a frenzy? Assume what they're saying is accurate until proven otherwise when they've proven to be unreliable?

This is off topic but an example. In Pope Francis' latest encylical, Taylor Marshall made a video and stated that out of 43,000 words God the Father was mentioned zero times, Jesus Christ twice and the Holy Spirit 3 times. That got splashed all over the internet. It took me less than 5 minutes to find the encyclical online and do a word search. I found out what he said was true, sort of. Jesus Christ was only mentioned twice. The other 33 times the Pope referenced him, he only said "Jesus" not "Jesus Christ." But that didn't make as good of a headline I guess? Yes the phrase "God the Father" is never used. But "God" is mentioned 80 times. The Holy Spirit is mentioned 3 times and "Spirit" twice. His critique was deliberately misleading, and only he knows for what purpose or end. But a bunch of people accepted what he said as truth and ran with it.

Do we really expect Pope Francis to monitor every news site/outlet and what is said about him and issue corrections? Should the Vatican have corrected Taylor Marshall's video? While that would be nice in many ways it's not really practical.

I am not unsympathetic to wishing he would speak less off the cuff, or issue clarifications. But that is not likely to change. The reality is there are people out there with an agenda and the secular press and even some Catholics are going to help them along. I don't really know what anyone can do about it. But we don't have to keep falling for it, and I think we have some accountability when we do. All we have control over is our response.

 

[Davidnic]

Why are we constantly letting sketchy media reporting whip us into a frenzy? Assume what they're saying is accurate until proven otherwise when they've proven to be unreliable?

This is off topic but an example. In Pope Francis' latest encylical, Taylor Marshall made a video and stated that out of 43,000 words God the Father was mentioned zero times, Jesus Christ twice and the Holy Spirit 3 times. That got splashed all over the internet. It took me less than 5 minutes to find the encyclical online and do a word search. I found out what he said was true, sort of. Jesus Christ was only mentioned twice. The other 33 times the Pope referenced him, he only said "Jesus" not "Jesus Christ." But that didn't make as good of a headline I guess? Yes the phrase "God the Father" is never used. But "God" is mentioned 80 times. The Holy Spirit is mentioned 3 times and "Spirit" twice. His critique was deliberately misleading, and only he knows for what purpose or end. But a bunch of people accepted what he said as truth and ran with it.

Do we really expect Pope Francis to monitor every news site/outlet and what is said about him and issue corrections? Should the Vatican have corrected Taylor Marshall's video? While that would be nice in many ways it's not really practical.

I am not unsympathetic to wishing he would speak less off the cuff, or issue clarifications. But that is not likely to change. The reality is there are people out there with an agenda and the secular press and even some Catholics are going to help them along. I don't really know what anyone can do about it. But we don't have to keep falling for it, and I think we have some accountability when we do. All we have control over is our response.

We definitely allow ourselves to react exactly the way the media wants us to. Pope Francis though should also watch his words a bit.

It could also be a lot of us were raised with the last two popes who were very precise and exact and theological powerhouses.

Pope Francis is not that. He tries to be pastoral extending the good intentions that people will understand what he is saying. But his weaknesses in communication play right into our social media driven media.

So while yes I think he could improve his style.. it is also an opportunity for us to reject forcefed narratives for the sake of speed and agenda.

 

[paul1149]

his weaknesses in communication play right into our social media driven media.

So while yes I think he could improve his style.

I think in the aggregate over the years Francis has done a very effective job of communicating his intentions. He has barred and banished conservatives. He refuses to meet with those with whom he has disagreements, or even allow them into symposiums, as with the one on climate change, yet he welcomes the likes of Jim Martin and Leonard DiCaprio with open arms. He met with a journalist noted for stretching the truth and pro-gay sentiments a couple of years ago, and he weathered the resulting scandal concerning what he reportedly said without clarification. He spurned the Dubia. He diverted the press on a plane at the height of the sex scandal, by saying we'll get to that topic at the end of the interview, and then walked off without doing so. And what actually has been done about that scandal, now years on?

Francis must have lieutenants to advise him on journalists' and priests' proclivities, so it is not possible to assign this to naivety or chance, especially considering his disinterest in cleaning up his messes. Like with Big Tech censoring legitimate speech, all the "errors" go against conservatives. IMO, this is not a question of style, but of substance. I'm not RC, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Michie]

Granted, the CDF statement was not issued ex cathedra. So conservative defenders of Pope Francis will no doubt continue their valiant efforts to explain how his statements can (after some strenuous mental gymnastics) be reconciled with Catholic doctrine. But is there any doubt that the Pontiff’s statement makes it more difficult to defend the traditional teaching? When Father James Martin says that this is “a major step forward in the Church’s support for LGBTQ people,” he implies that it is a step toward a certain goal. Millions of people, reading the headlines generated by this statement, will conclude that Church teaching is changing, and will continue to change until that goal is reached.

By the way, why did the Pope say that “we have to create” civil unions, when civil unions are alreadyrecognized in Italy, and most of the neighboring European countries have taken the next step and legalized same-sex marriage? Ten years ago, when he proposed civil unions as a compromise, we might have questioned his political acumen. Today the impact of the papal statement is considerably more damaging. He is, in effect, relinquishing any claim to territory that the opposing forces have already occupied—and thus creating new obstacles for any Catholics who seek to regain that territory in the future.

Continued below.
The Pope sows more seeds of confusion

 

[Michie]

Video below.
Francis has openly called for civil unions for homosexuals. Wherein Fr. Z rants.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Why are we constantly left with the chore of parsing everything he says? He could easily correct any false perceptions that were made by simply issuing an update but he chooses not to.

I can't do that any longer, though I did in the past. He is responsible for his own mess. He likes messes though, and he doesn't seem to have any sense that his office is to clarify and shepherd.

Answer the dubia, release the McCarrick report, and resign.

 

[Davidnic]

Those Pope Francis quotes: Video editing and media controversy | Where Peter Is

 

[chevyontheriver]

Those Pope Francis quotes: Video editing and media controversy | Where Peter Is

Waiting for the pope to explain how the media got him all wrong and how he didn't say or mean or intend it the way it came out. I'll just hold my breath until I pass out. Oh, better not do that because I don't expect any explanation that would put things back to status quo ante.

 

[Davidnic]

And I understand your view. I agree he should have come out already and clarified this. That's not something he ever does and that at a point becomes indefensible because of the scandal that causes the faithful. And at a point you have to say well if you're not coming out to clarify it it's because don't want to handle hard questions you just want people to interpret things their own way on each side.

That's not what a Pope should do.

 

[chevyontheriver]

And I understand your view. I agree he should have come out already and clarified this. That's not something he ever does and that at a point becomes indefensible because of the scandal that causes the faithful. And at a point you have to say well if you're not coming out to clarify it it's because don't want to handle hard questions you just want people to interpret things their own way on each side.

That's not what a Pope should do.

To me, on this, if he doesn't clarify then he thinks it's already clear. And I don't really expect any clarification.

 

[Davidnic]

Pope Francis' homosexuality comments heavily edited in documentary, no Vatican comment on civil unions

Even this article. It seems fairly obvious this thing was deceptively edited and the biographer has lied about a couple things and been caught. So a Vatican statement should be the obvious thing to do. But I don't think we'll get one.

 

[zippy2006]

Those Pope Francis quotes: Video editing and media controversy | Where Peter Is

This is helpful, but unfortunately it doesn't address his comments about civil unions. I believe that was the most important comment.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Pope Francis' homosexuality comments heavily edited in documentary, no Vatican comment on civil unions

Even this article. It seems fairly obvious this thing was deceptively edited and the biographer has lied about a couple things and been caught. So a Vatican statement should be the obvious thing to do. But I don't think we'll get one.

It's hard for me to not conclude that it's a soft way of advancing an agenda of revolution, one where we all bend over backwards to defend it but those that hear the dog whistles know what he's doing and are encouraged. I don't want to conclude that but what other option is there?