Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

[Frankl]

Post: Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

 

[Strathos]

Civil unions but not marriages?

 

[Inkfingers]

He makes out that homosexual "couples" are in a genuine family.

The man is a heretic. Flat out.

The old joke response is "Is the Pope Catholic". Well the answer is now "Not anymore".

 

[Tinker Grey]

Civil unions but not marriages?

I think it is possibly an attempt to position the Church as an/the arbiter of marriage. If the pope promotes civil unions, he can grant rights to the married without having to recognize civil-union couples.

Call me cynical.

 

[Tree of Life]

Gay people have a right to be in a family but clergy don't.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Traditional Catholics should just all become Sedevacantists at this point.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Gay people have a right to be in a family but clergy don't.

Some people just have same sex attraction. I get it. But God calls practicing that lifestyle sin. These people are not converted.

 

[FireDragon76]

Some people just have same sex attraction. I get it. But God calls practicing that lifestyle sin. These people are not converted.

I think @Tree of Life 's point is that he doesn't think his religion can dictate how people who don't share his religious beliefs live. Which is quite correct. If I'm not a conservative Christian, why should I have to live by the implications of your belief?

Freedom of religion is a widely recognized civil right now among most traditional Protestant churches, and also to a great extent, in Catholicism.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

I think @Tree of Life 's point is that he doesn't think his religion can dictate how people who don't share his religious beliefs live. Which is quite correct. If I'm not a conservative Christian, why should I have to live by the implications of your belief?

Freedom of religion is a widely recognized civil right now among most traditional Protestant churches, and also to a great extent, in Catholicism.

The bottom line is people are either going to live by God's standards and commandments or not. The day is which we live can easily be described by the line in Judges that said people did what they thought was right in their own eyes. :sigh*

But there will always be a remnant that live by the Word of God.

 

[FireDragon76]

The bottom line is people are either going to live by God's standards and commandments or not. The day is which we live can easily be described by the line in Judges that said people did what they thought was right in their own eyes. :sigh*

But there will always be a remnant that live by the Word of God.

OK, but some of us don't center our lives on theistic belief or a particular interpretation of the Bible. I'm just saying we should try to live and let live, that is what civilized people do when they disagree. You respect my rights and I respect yours.

 

[JohnDB]

I truly thought that this was a joke or over exaggerating a press release of some kind.

Then I looked at the news...

Can they excommunicate the Pope?

I know that they are about to have a civil war within the ranks.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think @Tree of Life 's point is that he doesn't think his religion can dictate how people who don't share his religious beliefs live. Which is quite correct. If I'm not a conservative Christian, why should I have to live by the implications of your belief?

That's like stating we dont share the religios beliefs of, thou shalt not steal, kill, or bear false witness.

This isn't some mild disagreement on theology, we're talking damnable sin here.

 

[FireDragon76]

He said: “Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

I understand this is a big step for His Holiness, and I applaud his courage.

My own church, the ELCA (Lutheran), issues a strange "non-stance" in 2009 and basically agreed to disagree on the matter (which still engraged the more biblical fundamentalist wing of our church). Nothing positive about gay families was said ( https://download.elca.org/ELCA Resource Repository/SexualitySS.pdf?_ga=2.50665897.1492149669.1603306425-2049361890.1603306425 ), but alot of talk about trust, responsibility, etc. In this way, the Pontiff has actually done better than many Lutherans in the US, taking an affirmative stance on a controversial topic, rather than merely talking around the issue.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's like stating we dont share the religios beliefs of, thou shalt not steal, kill, or bear false witness.

This isn't some mild disagreement on theology, we're talking damnable sin here.

Don't people have a right to disagree with your religion?

 

[FireDragon76]

I truly thought that this was a joke or over exaggerating a press release of some kind.

Then I looked at the news...

Can they excommunicate the Pope?

I know that they are about to have a civil war within the ranks.

Not likely, since Catholics in the US and Europe support gay marriage more than mainline Protestants do.

Most likely this is about the Pope being sensitive to the genuine sensus fidelium (sense of the faithful).

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

OK, but some of us don't center our lives on theistic belief or a particular interpretation of the Bible. I'm just saying we should try to live and let live, that is what civilized people do when they disagree. You respect my rights and I respect yours.

It seems what you're really demanding is respect for relationships we find sinful. Not a live and let live attitude of liberalism. Don't pretend your position is neutral because it isn't, it is just as forceful as any other political ideology in ultimately demanding compliance.

 

[FreedomForever]

I wonder if all Catholics who support their own pope will immediately be banned/prohibited from participating in the 'Christian' sections of this website? Since the site runners, and many conservative churches, take it upon themselves that decide what is a Christian adn what is allowed to be debated and discussed about the Bible?

The truth on this matter is complex. A great deal of the supposed condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible stem from mistranslations and/or are rooted in highly specific historical and cultural subtext that you cannot translate into modern darn relationships. That does not mean the issue is settled - it required continued historical and contextual analysis. And search for God's heart in all this. When you shut down discussion, you shut down truth, and you shut down exploring the scriptures.

Those that pretend that supporting the view that the pope holds in this case is betraying Jesus or the Bible - are making a mockery of both.

 

[FireDragon76]

It seems what you're really demanding is respect for relationships we find sinful. Not a live and let live attitude of liberalism. Don't pretend your position is neutral because it isn't, it is just as forceful as any other political ideology in ultimately demanding compliance.

I'm talking about tolerance, not respect. If you can't adhere to a principle of non-injury to others who have different religious values from you, you are the one being forceful and aggressive.

 

[Ananias]

A great deal of the supposed condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible stem from mistranslations and/or are rooted in highly specific historical and cultural subtext that you cannot translate into modern darn relationships.

That is ridiculous. The exact same problems were present in, e.g., the Corinthian church as there are in Western churches. In fact, they had some even more damnable problems relating to local cults and temple prostitution, etc. And blaming some of this stuff on "mistranslation" of well known Koine Greek words is laughable. Quote me passages you think are "mistranslated", and we'll compare them to Dan Wallace's NET Bible translations. (He is a renowned world expert in the Koine Greek, and also a believer, so he ticks both boxes for Biblical authority.)

Human nature is eternal, what was sinful then is sinful now. We are in no way "higher and wiser" than the Apostles were; in morality, we have regressed.

 

[Ananias]

I'm talking about tolerance, not respect. If you can't adhere to a principle of non-injury to others who have different religious values from you, you are the one being forceful and aggressive.

Affirmation of sinful behavior is sin. Also, disagreeing with you is not "injury".