SO MANY CHURCH'S - WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH (Scripture)?

chad kincham

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What exactly are you looking for in the Bible.

That the Bible states that the church Jesus is building is invisible

The people don’t go to a church - the church (the believers) go into a building.

When Jesus said He would build His church on a rock, He didn’t mean on a pope, cardinals, bishops and priests - He meant it will be built upon the body of believerrs.

This thread was started by someone looking to prove that the RCC is the one true church...
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Hi everyone,

Just a question for friendly discussion please based on the scriptures. According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q4. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant?

...............

My view which I will show latter through the scriptures is that God's people make up his Church, and they are defined in the scriptures as all those who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them and are knowingly believing and following his Word. This means God's people are in every Church but not every Church is God's - There is a calling out coming according to REVELATION 18:1-5 because the Church's professing Christianity has fallen away from God and his Word. This of course should be obvious to everyone not only foretold in the scripture but from the fact that there are 40,000 or 50,000 denominations of Christianity recorded today. Not all of them can be right and God's true Church right? I will provide the scriptures proof latter and link them to this OP showing why I believe this way. I believe that God is calling his people where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God, as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is calling the true worshipers out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God.

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.
My perspective on the church takes a while to explain.

Jesus is like the fulfillment of Moses.

The 12 apostles are like the fulfillment of the 12 patriarchs of Israel.

The Orthodox Church is like Benjamin because it is so small.

The Catholic Church is like Judah because the popes are the fulfillment of the kings.

The reformation denominations are like the other 10 tribes, the division from the other two even was over an argument of "works" just like in the story of Jeroboam and Rehoboam.

Since so much time has passed, referring back to the original 12 is impossible because there are pope kings, because the kingdom was divided, because we are in captivity. The foundation of the original movement called the way was lost when they became state religions. Even our current thousands of denominations root from colonialism in Europe.

There is no such thing as "the true church" in terms of an organization consisting of humans.

However, Jesus continues to build His church as a dwelling place for God in the Spirit Realm.

So it is fulfilled, no one will be able to say - the kingdom of God is over here, or over there.
 
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chad kincham

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Jesus built His church on Peter, the rock. The Catholic church.

Matthew 16:18
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Not only is Peter not what the church is built on, he was never pope or even a bishop, in the Roman sect.

The Bible makes clear that Peter was the apostle to the Jews, not to the gentiles, such as found in the Roman church.

Paul was the apostle to the gentiles - that’s why he was writing to the Roman church in the NT book of Romans, instead of Peter.
 
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Gregorikos

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The church of God is mentioned most often in the NT - the Church of Christ is second.

"The Way" is mentioned seven times- in Acts 9:2; Acts 18:25-26; Acts 19:9; Acts 19:23; Acts 24:14; Acts 24:22

I think they have the #2 spot.
 
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chad kincham

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OTHER SCRIPTS:
ARMENIAN (ՊԵՏՐՈՍ)
ORIGIN:
SYRIAC / ARAMAIC / GREEK
NAME ROOT:
KEFA > KĒPHÂS > PÉTRĀ > PÉTROS > PETRUS
NATIVE NAME ROOT:
KĒPHÂS (ΚΗΦΑ͂Σ) PETR (פטר) PÉTRĀ ‎(ΠΈΤΡᾹ) PÉTROS (ΠΈΤΡΟΣ
MEANING:
star.png

This name derives from Latin "petra" (Petrus), from the Ancient Greek “pétrā ‎(πέτρᾱ) Pétros (Πέτρος)”, from the Aramaic word “kephas”, which in turn from the Syriac “kefa”, all words meaning “stone, rock” (figurative meaning: solid, strong and resolute). Saint Peter, according to ancient tradition was a prominent early Christian leader, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, according to the New Testament. He is venerated as a saint and considered by the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodoxy to be the first bishop of Rome and first Pope. Roman Catholics consider him to have been the first Pope and all subsequent popes to have been his successors, and therefore sometimes refer to the Pope or the Papacy itself as Peter.
KEYWORDS:
BIBLICAL / RELIGION (BISHOPS) / RELIGION (POPES) / RELIGION (SAINTS)

Petros - Name's Meaning of Petros

Nice try.

Jesus told the apostles that none of them would be above the others - he was not given preeminence:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

And Peter himself didn’t think he was anything but a fellow elder:

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am ALSO an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

The church isn’t built on Peter, or on any individual apostle or prophet:

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Built on the foundation of apostles, plural, and prophets, plural - NOT on Peter alone.
 
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chad kincham

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OTHER SCRIPTS:
ARMENIAN (ՊԵՏՐՈՍ)
ORIGIN:
SYRIAC / ARAMAIC / GREEK
NAME ROOT:
KEFA > KĒPHÂS > PÉTRĀ > PÉTROS > PETRUS
NATIVE NAME ROOT:
KĒPHÂS (ΚΗΦΑ͂Σ) PETR (פטר) PÉTRĀ ‎(ΠΈΤΡᾹ) PÉTROS (ΠΈΤΡΟΣ
MEANING:
star.png

This name derives from Latin "petra" (Petrus), from the Ancient Greek “pétrā ‎(πέτρᾱ) Pétros (Πέτρος)”, from the Aramaic word “kephas”, which in turn from the Syriac “kefa”, all words meaning “stone, rock” (figurative meaning: solid, strong and resolute). Saint Peter, according to ancient tradition was a prominent early Christian leader, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, according to the New Testament. He is venerated as a saint and considered by the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and Oriental Orthodoxy to be the first bishop of Rome and first Pope. Roman Catholics consider him to have been the first Pope and all subsequent popes to have been his successors, and therefore sometimes refer to the Pope or the Papacy itself as Peter.
KEYWORDS:
BIBLICAL / RELIGION (BISHOPS) / RELIGION (POPES) / RELIGION (SAINTS)

Petros - Name's Meaning of Petros

Nice try.

Jesus told the apostles that none of them would be above the others - he was not given preeminence:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:


And Peter himself didn’t think he was anything but a fellow elder:

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am ALSO an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

The church isn’t built on Peter, or on any individual person, other than Jesus.


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Built on the foundation of apostles, plural, and prophets, plural - not on Peter alone.
 
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chad kincham

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Peter means rock. Cephas means rock.

Peter the Rock

You will always disagree as the truth hurts what you believe my friend.

You can’t spin it, no matter how hard you try.

The language God picked to write the New Testament in, clearly and unequivocally says the church is built on Petra, while Peter is Petros.

Let’s expose the constant litany of revisionist history perpetrated by the RCC.

The false history is that Jesus gave Peter the preeminence over all the apostles, that Jesus made Peter the head of the church and built the church on him, that Peter was the first pope, and that every subsequent pope holds the seat of Peter, via apostolic succession.


This is false, from A to Z - and all that’s needed to disprove the above claims, is the Bible.


Jesus told the apostles that none of them would be above the others - he was not given preeminence:


Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him,and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:


Peter himself didn’t think he was anything but a fellow elder:

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am ALSO an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Jesus did not tell Peter that the church would be built on him:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus spoke of two different rocks: Peter is Petros in the Greek - small rock - and the rock the church is built on is Petra - bedrock.

In the Greek Jesus said: thou art PETROS, and upon this PETRA I will build my church.

The church isn’t built on Peter, or on any individual person, other than Jesus.


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Built on the foundation of apostles, plural, and prophets, plural - not on Peter alone.


In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives Peter keys (authority) and the power to bind and loose - but 2 chapters later, when He met the other apostles, Jesus gives the same power of binding and loosing to them, too ( Matthew 18:18 - so Peter has no special authority beyond what the 12 shared.


Peter was not a Bishop, or Pope in the Roman church - ever.


Linus was the first bishop/pope of the Roman church, according to the Orthodox Church.


Peter, the apostle to the Jews, is found in the NT in the Jerusalem church, the Jewish Christian church - not in the gentile Roman church.


That’s why Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.


Paul calls those in the Roman church, gentiles.


Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among OTHER Gentiles.


Scripture says Paul is the apostle to the gentiles, Peter to the Jews (circumcision), so Peter would not be the head of a gentile Roman sect - and wasn’t.


Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospelof the circumcision wasunto Peter;

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.


And when Paul visited Peter 3 years after his conversion on Damascus road, he had to go to Jerusalem, where Peter and the Jewish Christian church was:


Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Peter was not in Rome being a pope.
 
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How do we know who are and who are not and who is God's true church (people)?
God's true Church will not align completely within the boundaries of any single denomination. We know that each and every one of them contain Tares, too.

Because of that, no church can claim to be free of unbelievers, even in its leadership. But God still can (and does) use those denominational frameworks to accomplish His ultimate purposes.
 
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chad kincham

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Peter means rock. Cephas means rock.

Peter the Rock

You will always disagree as the truth hurts what you believe my friend.

You can’t spin it, no matter how hard you try.

The language God picked to write the New Testament in, clearly and unequivocally says the church is built on Petra, while Peter is Petros.

Let’s expose the constant litany of revisionist history perpetrated by the RCC.


The false history is that Jesus gave Peter the preeminence over all the apostles, that Jesus made Peter the head of the church and built the church on him, that Peter was the first pope, and that every subsequent pope holds the seat of Peter, via apostolic succession.


This is false, from A to Z - and all that’s needed to disprove the above claims, is the Bible.


Jesus told the apostles that none of them would be above the others - he was not given preeminence:


Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him,and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:


Peter didn’t think he was anything but a fellow elder:


1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am ALSO an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:


Jesus did not tell Peter that the church would be built on him:


Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Jesus spoke of two different rocks: Peter is Petros in the Greek - small rock - and the rock the church is built on is Petra - bedrock.


In the Greek Jesus said: thou art PETROS, and upon this PETRA I will build my church.


The church isn’t built on Peter, or on any individual person, other than Jesus.


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Built on the foundation of apostles, plural, and prophets, plural - not on Peter alone.


In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives Peter keys (authority) and the power to bind and loose - but 2 chapters later, when He met the other apostles, Jesus gives the same power of binding and loosing to them, too ( Matthew 18:18 - so Peter has no special authority beyond what the 12 shared.


Peter was not a Bishop, or Pope in the Roman church - ever.


Linus was the first bishop/pope of the Roman church, according to the Orthodox Church.


Peter, the apostle to the Jews, is found in the NT in the Jerusalem church, the Jewish Christian church - not in the gentile Roman church.


That’s why Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.


Paul calls those in the Roman church, gentiles.


Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among OTHER Gentiles.


Scripture says Paul is the apostle to the gentiles, Peter to the Jews (circumcision), so Peter would not be the head of a gentile Roman sect - and wasn’t.


Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospelof the circumcision wasunto Peter;

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)


And when Paul visited Peter 3 years after his conversion on Damascus road, he had to go to Jerusalem, where Peter and the Jewish Christian church was:


Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Peter wasn’t in Rome being a pope.

Peter was part of the Jewish Jerusalem church.
 
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d taylor

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If Matthew 16 is looked at with the other verses in its context.

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

I believe the the rock is that which gives a person Eternal Life and makes the person a son of God.

And that rock is believing that Jesus is the Christ, The promised Messiah from the prophecies of the Tanakh. When that is done by a person, they become a child of God a member in the Church Jesus is building.
 
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bekkilyn

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The body of all those who put their trust in Christ and accept him as Lord and Savior is the "church". It's as simple as John 3:16-17. The church isn't about what building you go to or what denomination you're in, but about WHO you trust as your Shepherd.

So even though I often disagree with LGW as to specifics based on many arguments concerning the sabbath and perhaps a few other things, and he belongs to a different denomination, we are both in the same "church" whether he likes it or not. :p

(I put "church" in parenthesis since the word "church" is not actually in the bible. The word in scripture is actually Ekklesia in Greek, and it basically means an assembly of people, such as an assembly of state in secular terms, and Paul uses it to mean an assembly of believers in Christ. Then English translators decided to use the Germanic word "church" and it stuck to this day. :) )
 
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prodromos

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Just some questions for friendly discussion (answers to be based on the scriptures please).
Since the Church predates the writing of a single word of the New Testament, it seems you seek to define the Church by men's fallible interpretations of Scripture. Good luck with that.
Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
How does the Church define the Scriptures? Investigate that and you will find the Church.
 
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Hi everyone,

Just some questions for friendly discussion (answers to be based on the scriptures please). According to some consensus' there have been recorded between 40,000 to 50,000 different Christian Church denominations believe it or not. Now I do not know how accurate these numbers are but let's say for arguments sake even if there was only 5 different Christian Church's all professing to be the chosen of God, how are you going to know who has God's truth and who truly is God's Church? I think this will be an interesting topic as JESUS warns us in the last days that many will come in his name and there will be many false prophets (messengers) and false Christs (Head's of the body which is the church).

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (scripture please).

Q1. How do the scriptures define Church?
Q2. With so many Christian Church's in the world all professing Christ how can we know who is God's true Church?
Q3. How does the bible define as God's people?
Q4. Who is God's ISRAEL in the new covenant?
Q4. Who is Gods Church according to the scriptures in the New covenant?

...............

My view which I will show latter through the scriptures is that God's people make up his Church, and they are defined in the scriptures as all those who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them and are knowingly believing and following his Word. This means God's people are in every Church but not every Church is God's - There is a calling out coming according to REVELATION 18:1-5 because the Church's professing Christianity have fallen away from God and his Word.

This of course should be obvious to everyone as there is not only scriptures foretelling this but from the very fact that there are 40,000 or 50,000 different denominations of Christianity recorded today all professing to be God's true Church. Not all of them can be right and God's true Church right?

I will look to provide scripture proof latter and link them to this OP showing why I believe this way. I believe that God is calling his people where ever they may be back and from what ever Church they may be in back to the pure Word of God, as God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is calling the true worshipers out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God.

Friendly discussion please. What are your thoughts?

God bless.
These are all good questions..

The one true church is all those that believe in the Christ as their savior and His, life and work on the cross to save the world.

This is a collective group of believers.. All of whom have a different outlook, view, concepts and understandings of the scriptures. Some share views with others.. some down right reject concepts that others hold.

In the end.. the Church.. or the Bride... or AKA those who are children of God.. "Born again" are those that will stand in front of Christ... on the moment of their death and be called "good and faithful servants.. Washed in the blood and seen righteous despite their sinful life.. which has been wiped clean and pardoned by Christ who had no sin but paid for all sin.

So, you can search for the "one true church" all you want.. Some will say "it's me" some others will say "no it's us"...

But.. Christ, who loved the whole world will look at all of us and say "IT's You" to all those who trust in His words for eternal life.

Let's put aside this debate on which group is the one true church... we all are.
 
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And the Greek that is what the NT is written in, differentiates very explicitly between Petros, and Petra.
They are simply the masculine and feminine forms of the same word. English language does not have gender but many languages do. Your argument is without merit.
 
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Lost4words

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The new testament was written and translated in Koine Greek not Aramaic, even easier still.

Still, Jesus spoke in Aramaic. Cephas (Peter) means rock. One meaning.

Just like today, translating into English, can be frought with issues, yesterday was the same when translating it into Greek!

God bless you
 
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Lost4words

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That’s not true at all.

Jesus did not tell Peter that the church would be built on him:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus spoke of two different rocks: Peter is Petros in the Greek - small rock - and the rock the church is built on is Petra - bedrock.

In the Greek Jesus said: thou art PETROS, and upon this PETRA I will build my church.

The church isn’t built on Peter, or on any one individual:

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Built on the foundation of apostles, plural, and prophets, plural - not on Peter alone.

BTW, Jesus said no apostle would be above the others.

Peter had no preeminence.

No. Jesus spoke in Aramaic. Cephas has one meaning. Rock.

In Greek it was translated differently. Just like if writing down something today, in English, from another language. One has to translate it using available words that fit.

I am leaving this thread as you guys will always hate the real truths of the Catholic church and will refuse to open your eyes to that truth.

God bless you all
 
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I am leaving this thread as you guys will always hate the real truths of the Catholic church and will refuse to open your eyes to that truth.

Seems to me it is the Catholics that refuse to open their eyes to several truths. Sorry, but I have to say, I'd be less likely to see the Catolic church as the true church, than I would most, if not all other churches in existence.

And that is because I love the truth, nothing more.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there are good and well meaning Catholics, but they have their work cut out for them if they expect to bring respect to their church that some of us just don't have.

I've said what I said, I really don't like having to say it, and I'll not debate it here as such things often end up getting a thread pulled because some choose not to have that truth out here in black and white.
 
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