Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

[Bob S]

I know I am of the truth if I believe and love others as Jesus loves us 1Jn3:19-24

 

[Kenny'sID]

Would anyone dare to say that one is saved by faith plus works. Not on your life would any vile and filthy sinner utter such a heresy.

Yes, the bible actually says it.

Faith Without Works Is dead

 

[chad kincham]

There is no mention of Gods 4th commandment in these scriptures. What sabbaths do you think these scriptures in Colossians 2 are talking about? Did you know that under the ceremonial MOSAIC laws there are many kinds of annual sabbaths in the old testament that can fall on any day of the week?

So is it.......

1. The sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Can you show me where Colossians 2 is talking about God's 10 commandments?
Yep no where. Happy to show where Paul is quoting from in the Old testament if your interested, just let me know.

First of all you need to start with this verse:


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


I checked two scholarly commentaries: Jameson-Faucet-Brown; and Albert Barnes, and both agree the above scripture references the law of Moses - which of course includes all sabbaths that existed.

Now verse 16:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Look at it with Strong’s numbers:

Col 2:16 Let no G3361  man G5100  therefore G3767  judge G2919  you G5209  in G1722  meat, G1035  or G2228  in G1722  drink, G4213  or G2228  in G1722  respect G3313  of an holyday, G1859  or G2228  of the new moon, G3561  or G2228  of the sabbath G4521  days:

Sabbath days is number G4521 in the Hebrew:

G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY reposefrom secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68

As you can see, the word SABBATHS in that verse includes the WEEKLY sabbath observance.

And the two verses taken together mean: Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross, THEREFORE let no man judge you for not keeping the sabbath days that Jesus took out of our way.

Ergo, your claim won’t wash - Colossians 2:16 is about the weekly sabbath.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes, the bible actually says it.

Faith Without Works Is dead

If you read James carefully it actually says.

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

Nevertheless, grace precedes any faith or works.

Your works flow from the reconciliation that Jesus granted for you. The chief work is to believe in Jesus Christ.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Even further, one cannot even have faith unless God's grace is preached. Any works from that faith are merely a thankful response to the magnitude of Christ's love for us.

By the way, James is discussing works with Christians. James is teaching the elect that faith is an active faith.

 

[chad kincham]

You were commanded to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Show me that command in the Torah.

Jesus said not to divorce except for immorality. Show me that commandment in the Torah.

Actually no Paul is saying no such thing. Colossians 2:16-17 is not in reference to God's 4th commandment. Colossians 2 in fact is not talking about any of God's 10 commandments or God's 4th commandment which is one of the ten commandments. It is talking about the annual shadow sabbaths in the feast days from the old covenant that were shadows of things to come.

There is also no mention of God's 4th commandment Sabbath in HEBREWS 14 which is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days, and judging others not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination with God.

Happy to discuss the scripture details if your interested.

First of all you need to start with this verse:


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


I checked two scholarly commentaries: Jameson-Faucet-Brown; and Albert Barnes, and both agree the above scripture references the law of Moses - which of course includes all sabbaths that existed.


Now verse 16:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Look at it with Strong’s numbers:

Col 2:16 Let no G3361  man G5100  therefore G3767  judge G2919  you G5209  in G1722  meat, G1035  or G2228  in G1722  drink, G4213  or G2228  in G1722  respect G3313  of an holyday, G1859  or G2228  of the new moon, G3561  or G2228  of the sabbath G4521  days:


Sabbath days is number G4521 in the Hebrew:

G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY reposefrom secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68


As you can see, the word SABBATHS in that verse includes the WEEKLY sabbath observance.


And the two verses taken together mean: Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross, THEREFORE let no man judge you for not keeping the sabbath days that Jesus took out of our way.


Ergo, your claim won’t wash - Colossians 2:16 is about the weekly sabbath.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Nevertheless, grace precedes any faith or works.

Yet works are still necessary.

Was jesus wrong when he said we must do good in order to get to heaven?

Or will you not answer because you know Christ does not lie, he was not wrong, and to answer the question honestly, you will be admitting you are wrong?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


When the New Testament mentions Gods commandments, as in keeping Gods commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO commands:


The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.


And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.


One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.


Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.


On the contrary, it should be obvious, that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc,


And if you love God with all your heart, you

Did you not read what I wrote? BOTH "commands" are in the Torah...all the basis are the same. BOTH are summarized in the 10 as well as listed individually in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. What is obvious is that you have an agenda...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And the two verses taken together mean: Jesus nailed the law of Moses to His cross, THEREFORE let no man judge you for not keeping the sabbath days that Jesus took out of our way.

He did not nail the law to the cross, the curse of the law was nailed to it...He became a curse.
Galatians 3:13

 

[Tony B]

Yes, the bible actually says it.

Faith Without Works Is dead

Yes, indeed.

We must be faithful towards Jesus and be trusting in Him, as well as striving to keep all His moral laws, and the laws of the land providing they are not in breach of any of the other requirements.

All these acts of goodness of course are only of real benefit to us if they are seasoned with heartfelt love through an alive spirit.

 

[SANTOSO]

Is there any evidence in the Bible indicating that evangelized Gentiles are expected to keep the Sabbath? If not, is there any scriptural evidence against it? Or are the Scriptures rather silent in this regard?

This is what we have heard from apostle Paul:

Therefore LET NO ONE PASS JUDGMENT ON YOU IN QUESTIONS OF food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or A SABBATH. -Colossians 2:16

according to what apostle Paul have spoken, we Gentiles do not let anyone judge us with regard to a Sabbath day !

Also, consider this, that we have heard :
So then, THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST for the people of God, -Hebrews 4:9
for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. -Hebrews 4:10
Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that NO ONE may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

When our Lord Jesus Christ came and preached peace to us, Gentiles who were far off and peace to the Jews who were near. For through Christ, we both Jews and Gentiles have access in one Spirit to the Father.
We both have brought near by the blood of Christ.And we Gentiles are no longer strangers and aliens, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God; Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles are God’s people built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.

Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles who are God’s people are called to strive to enter a Sabbath Rest !

That Sabbath Rest is God’s rest or also called the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is what we have heard from apostle Paul: Therefore LET NO ONE PASS JUDGMENT ON YOU IN QUESTIONS OF food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or A SABBATH. -Colossians 2:16

We know now by reading deeper and not by not surface reading the scriptures and by adding the context back that Colossians 2:16-17 is not even talking about God's 4th commandment but the shadow annual sabbaths in the annual feast days of the old covenant that can fall on any day of the week (scripture support here and here linked) not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 in the new covenant.

according to what apostle Paul have spoken, we Gentiles do not let anyone judge us with regard to a Sabbath day !

Indeed, no more annual sabbaths in the feast days.

Also, consider this, that we have heard : So then, THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST for the people of God, -Hebrews 4:9 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. -Hebrews 4:10 Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that NO ONE may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11
When our Lord Jesus Christ came and preached peace to us, Gentiles who were far off and peace to the Jews who were near. For through Christ, we both Jews and Gentiles have access in one Spirit to the Father. We both have brought near by the blood of Christ.And we Gentiles are no longer strangers and aliens, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God; Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles are God’s people built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. Therefore, we both Jews and Gentiles who are God’s people are called to strive to enter a Sabbath Rest !That Sabbath Rest is God’s rest or also called the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Indeed, have considered this one well. The Aramaic actually reads like this...

Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

The rest being spoken of that Gods people are to enter into is God's "seventh day Sabbath rest" by believing and following God's Word. This is shown in the context in Hebrews 4:1-5...

Hebrews 4:1-5
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS OF Hebrews 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest. Context matters.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

 

[SANTOSO]

Good points that you made.

How about what is spoken in Hebrew 4:11

Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

Could you elaborate what you understand ?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Good points that you made.

How about what is spoken in Hebrew 4:11

Let us therefore strive to enter THAT REST, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

Could you elaborate what you understand ?

Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.

[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (see Hebrews 4:1-5 showing God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and the rest of believing and following God's Word] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

God bless.

 

[Randy777]

Its clear the Israelites had the Sabbath given to them for their sake. A day of rest from their labor. They had the law. None of that was able to save them. It wasn't preached to them stop keeping the sabbath and believe in Jesus. Nor was it preached to the gentiles start keeping the sabbath and believe in Jesus.

The Israelites were sanctified by their faith in Jesus just as the gentiles were. God made no distinction as the same Spirit was given to all.

We were purchased for God by the blood of Jesus. There is no need to "add" the sabbath for righteousness sake.

I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I don't keep the sabbath as is in the law. A absence of work with even meals prepared in advance.

I will not back down from grace.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[Bob S]

Yeshua did not give 2 new commandments...love God and your neighbor are both in the Torah...in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus...

Right the two great commands are found in the book of the law, yet Jesus gave us a command far greater that the two, we are to love others as Jesus loves us. He loves us so much that He gave His life on the Cross to redeem us. Jn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[Bob S]

Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.

[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (see Hebrews 4:1-5 showing God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and the rest of believing and following God's Word] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

God bless.

To whom was the writer of Hebrews referring? Were they Sabbath keepers? Why would the writer even have to preach to the choir since they were already observant? Why would the writer say that they had never entered the Rest God had for them, verse 6?

From the get go, when the Sabbath command was given before Sinai, the Israelites didn't enter the Rest the writer is referring. So, "my rest" and "that rest" are indeed not the same LGW. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matt 11:28.

Jesus knew that the Sabbath could not give the Israelites the Rest that believing and trusting Jesus could give. OUR REST IS IN CHRIST! The rest found in Hebrews 4 is the REST IN JESUS Something the Sabbath given only to Israel could not do.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, the bible actually says it.

Faith Without Works Is dead

Was James referring to the works of the Law or the works meaning good deeds? Was James disputing Paul? If so who do we believe?

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


So, if you believe James was referring to "works of the Law then maybe it would be wise to read Gal 3: 10 until you understand.

I have no idea if you are a Sabbath observer, but there are some SDA Sabbath observers on the forum and they believe in the keeping of Sabbath as being salvational. If we don't we won't. If that is not salvation by the works of the law ....

 

[SANTOSO]

Hi SANTOSO, yes no problem. I believe Hebrews 4:11 is a continuation of the contexts of Hebrews 4:1-9. The "THAT REST" is the same as the "MY REST" that those who did not believe the gospel could not enter into. The "MY REST" is "GOD'S REST" and this is already identified in the Hebrews 4:1-5 as the "seventh day Sabbath" of creation where God rested from his work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 and blessed the "seventh day" of the week and made it a "Holy day" of rest for mankind *Mark 2:27.

[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (see Hebrews 4:1-5 showing God's rest is the "seventh day Sabbath), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH and the rest of believing and following God's Word] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

God bless.

Hello LoveGodsWord,
I still like to discuss about this verse:

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

Do you see the writer asking us to strive to enter that Sabbath rest ?

but if I understand what you said correctly, you said that we have entered that rest because we have believed the gospel.

so you are proposing that there is no need to strive to enter that rest since we have entered that rest.

I am just wondering why you said seem contrary to what the writer of Hebrews’ intent.

I believe the writer is referring that sabbath rest is God’s rest and not the weekly sabbath observance.

I hope you can write more simple to clarify your point of view. I am all right if we have different views.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.

We are now under the two love commands, which fulfills ALL the law.


It should be obvious, that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc,


And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.


Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.

If you're using this philosophy than why is it the only commandment you decided you don't want to keep is the one that starts with Remember. The only one that uses the word Holy and the only one God blessed? You talk about the love commandments which are important, so if you're using this same philosophy than this verse is very simple. How do you love God according to the Bible?

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

In this passage Jesus talks about coming again. He uses the commandments in this same passage, just like in revelations in the last few verses in the Bible,

Seems like people are looking for a 101 excuses to not keep Gods Holy law which He said would never change. Instead of looking for some obscure versus that could be interpreted the way you hope and "do away" with the Law of God but what if you're wrong? What is it you have to lose? It could be everything. Are you willing to take that chance?

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

John 14
The Way, the Truth, and the Life
14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

The Father Revealed
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

The Answered Prayer
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

 

[Bob S]

If you're using this philosophy than why is it the only commandment you decided you don't want to keep was the one that starts with Remember. The only one that uses the word Holy and the only one God blessed? You talk about the love commandments which are important, so if you're using this same philosophy than this verse is very simple. How do you love God according to the Bible?

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

What are "my commandments"? Why do you try to add to scripture something that is not there by indicating that "my commandments" is referring to the TEN commandments?