Post about hell

[Nevada Smith]

There are three views of the final judgment. All three have biblical support. All three are in conflict with one another. Which will you choose?
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Universal Restorationism

# 3 Universalism
I have read some of the books by Rev. John Wesley Hanson and agree with the author.

Books by John Wesley Hanson (Author of Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years)

 

[Saint Steven]

# 3 Universalism
I have read some of the books by Rev. John Wesley Hanson and agree with the author.

Books by John Wesley Hanson (Author of Universalism, the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years)

Thanks for the resource. I'll add it to my study notes.

Here is one I can share. I have lots more.

The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Nevada Smith]

So your wording was after the bodies were resurrected, they would be destroyed.

But now you say they are imperishable. So which is it?

I'm not sure what you are asking. But this is my understanding of events. At the time of the resurrection we will all be given new bodies that are imperishable. Then at the judgment thoses that are saved will be given eternal life. Those that are not saved will be given the second death.

Call it the parable of the the Big Mac. The Big Mac is created imperishable. They won't spoil. However they can still be thrown in the trash and burned.

 

[Saint Steven]

What do you think of Luke 16:19-31.And Isaiah 14:9-11.And Deuteronomy 32:22.And Psalms 86:13? Sorry if this in the wrong place.

How about this?
Everyone goes to "hell", then everyone goes to "heaven". Jesus said: (see bold below)

Mark 9:48-49
where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[Nevada Smith]

How about this?
Everyone goes to "hell", then everyone goes to "heaven". Jesus said: (see bold below)

Mark 9:48-49
where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be.

Like a lot of others I used to think that it referred to the burning garbage dump of Gehenna.

"It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbage—imagine the vile vision. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, his hearers would think of the valley of rotting, worm-infested garbage, where the fire always burned, smoke always lingered, and if the wind blew just right, a smell that sickened the sense wafted in the air.” (pp. 129-30)"

Apparently that was a myth.

"There’s only one problem. There is no biblical support for this, neither is there any literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods to suggest this. Put simply, there is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a perpetually burning garbage dump. In fact, near as anyone can tell, the earliest mention we have of this theory comes a Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. He remarked"

The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna- Myths That'll Preach

All too often we accept things as facts because it "appears to be right.

◄ Proverbs 14:12 ► NIV
There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

 

[WebersHome]

.
• Mark 9:49 . . For everyone will be salted with fire.

The people whose end is the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be permanently salted with fire, but none that stand for a face-to-face with Christ at the judgment seat depicted at 1Cor 3:11-15 will be permanently salted with fire; only just long enough to remove the bad from the good that they accumulated in their service to Christ.

The brimstone of Revelation is meant to ruin people; but the fire spoken of in first Corinthians is only meant to weed out people's useless works; while they themselves will survive, and not be touched by it; viz: the fire of Revelation is destructive, whereas the fire of first Corinthians is purifying.
_

 

[Der Alte]

I know what am talking. The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in Hell. The soul (man) that sins shall die, not burn in Hell forever.

As I said my Bible has 31,172 vss. yours seems to have only 2-3.
Did you ever read what Jesus said about the subject. Here again is what you ignored from my previous post.
Jesus taught,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/Gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.”
The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jewish teaching was wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

There is the first death that is sleep. There is the second death after the resurrection and the judgement, that is eternal.

It is as simple as that. How many of Christ's followers were priests, scribes and rabbis? It was the learned men, like yourself, of His day that rejected Christ because they were too learned to understand Him. It was the simple masses, like myself, that understood and accepted His message.

John understood that there was eternal, unending, everlasting fiery punishment.
The lake of fire passages, in context.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.​

And 1000 years later, the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are still in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they] shall be tormented [plural verb] day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

The lake of fire [LOF] is called “the second death” twice in Rev. vss. 20:14 and 21:8. While this is true, Rev. never says that anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die.
The terms “the lake of fire” and “the second death” are interchangeable.
“The lake of fire” is “the second death” and “the second death” is “the lake of fire,” thus we can see that it is not synonymous with death or destruction.
…..We also see that being thrown into the LOF is not synonymous with death from Rev 19:20, where the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are thrown into the LOF and 1000 years later in 20:10 the devil, is thrown into the LOF. Three living beings, are thrown into the LOF but they do not die, they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is not one verse in Revelation which says anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies.
…..Rev 20:14 says death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Death is the point in time end of life; it has no physical presence and cannot be literally thrown anywhere.
If “hell” refers to the grave, graves are empty holes. Empty cannot be thrown anywhere.
Since neither death nor hell could/did die a first death they can’t die a second death. But there is a scriptural answer which does not involve jumping through hoops mixing literal and figurative in one sentence, there is a death and hell which can be thrown into the LOF.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

My name for these two beings are the angel of death and the demon of hell. They are thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended.
….More verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.” “No more death” but 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says 8 groups “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” If there is “no more death” after vs. 4 then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

 

[Nevada Smith]

As I said my Bible has 31,172 vss. yours seems to have only 2-3.
Did you ever read what Jesus said about the subject. Here again is what you ignored from my previous post.
Jesus taught,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/Gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.”
The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jewish teaching was wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

John understood that there was eternal, unending, everlasting fiery punishment.
The lake of fire passages, in context.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.​

And 1000 years later, the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are still in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they] shall be tormented [plural verb] day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

The lake of fire [LOF] is called “the second death” twice in Rev. vss. 20:14 and 21:8. While this is true, Rev. never says that anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die.
The terms “the lake of fire” and “the second death” are interchangeable.
“The lake of fire” is “the second death” and “the second death” is “the lake of fire,” thus we can see that it is not synonymous with death or destruction.
…..We also see that being thrown into the LOF is not synonymous with death from Rev 19:20, where the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are thrown into the LOF and 1000 years later in 20:10 the devil, is thrown into the LOF. Three living beings, are thrown into the LOF but they do not die, they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is not one verse in Revelation which says anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies.
…..Rev 20:14 says death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Death is the point in time end of life; it has no physical presence and cannot be literally thrown anywhere.
If “hell” refers to the grave, graves are empty holes. Empty cannot be thrown anywhere.
Since neither death nor hell could/did die a first death they can’t die a second death. But there is a scriptural answer which does not involve jumping through hoops mixing literal and figurative in one sentence, there is a death and hell which can be thrown into the LOF.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

My name for these two beings are the angel of death and the demon of hell. They are thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended.
….More verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.” “No more death” but 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says 8 groups “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” If there is “no more death” after vs. 4 then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

Starting with Matthew 25 41 "into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The eternal fire was prepared for devils and angels, not man.

Matthew 25:46 "these shall go away into eternal punishment" Correct. The second death is eternal. Those that are subject to the second death are even beyond the reach of God.

cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50 The wailing and gnashing of teeth will start when judgement is pronounced and will continue until they are cast into the fiery furnace and are consumed.

I could go though this verse by verse and explain it to you, but that would be a waste of my time. You have already rejected the teaching of Christ and the Bible and embrace the teaching of man as found in https://www.enotes.com/topics/dantes-inferno.

How about this? You tell me how the wages of sin is eternal life in Hell and not death. Or how the soul that sins shall not die, but live in Hell forever.

Since eternal life is the gift of Jesus Christ, how is it a sinner without that gift can live in Hell forever?

 

[1213]

...The soul that sinneth, it shall die...... Not burn in Hell forever...

I just want to say, body that is dead, may burn forever in hell, it does not mean the body is still alive in there.

 

[Der Alte]

Starting with Matthew 25 41 "into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The eternal fire was prepared for devils and angels, not man.
Matthew 25:46 "these shall go away into eternal punishment" Correct. The second death is eternal. Those that are subject to the second death are even beyond the reach of God.
cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50 The wailing and gnashing of teeth will start when judgement is pronounced and will continue until they are cast into the fiery furnace and are consumed.
I could go though this verse by verse and explain it to you, but that would be a waste of my time. You have already rejected the teaching of Christ and the Bible and embrace the teaching of man as found in https://www.enotes.com/topics/dantes-inferno.
How about this? You tell me how the wages of sin is eternal life in Hell and not death. Or how the soul that sins shall not die, but live in Hell forever.
Since eternal life is the gift of Jesus Christ, how is it a sinner without that gift can live in Hell forever?

The same old Dante's inferno rubbish which I refuted in my first post which you largely ignored.
There was a place of fiery everlasting conscious punishment in Judaism 100s of years before Dante. Dante very likely got his "inferno" from Judaism.
As with all heterodox religious groups you mangle scripture to make them fit your assumptions/presuppositions.
Yes the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his angels BUT Jesus the unrighteous would be thrown there.
Matt 25:46 Jesus said "eternal punishment" NOT "eternal death." Jesus is quoted as using the word "death" 17 times. And the word punishment only once. If Jesus had meant death in Matt 25:46 that is what He would have said.
Not one verse of what Jesus said says anything about the unrighteous being consumed. Not one verse says the punishment will only continue until the unrighteous are consumed. That is what false doctrine must add to scripture to make it say what they want it to.
…..In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself, is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
…..Some may argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They may argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
…..The Hebrew word םשל/mashal, translated “proverb,” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
…..The Jews considered this passage to be factual.

Jewish Encyclopedia-Gehenna
“When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).”
GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com​

…..Here is another passage where God, Himself, is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword,saith the Lord GOD.​

Jesus speaking, in the NT, a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.

Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.​

What you believe about the Old Testament is not really relevant. The Jews believed in hell and Jesus did not say anything to contradict that belief.
You can't seem to understand that all scripture must agree. Romans 6:23 cannot contradict the rest of the Bible. And you can't twist the meaning of the rest of the Bible to line up with your assumptions/presuppositions about Rom 6:23.

 

[WebersHome]

.

Since eternal life is the gift of Jesus Christ, how is it a sinner without that gift can live in Hell forever?

Eternal life isn't physical. That's why it's possible to have eternal life and still have to go thru death some day because eternal life isn't meant to give your body immortality. I mean; Jesus had eternal life (John 5:26, 1John 1:1-2) yet he was easily put to death on the cross. And had his body not been restored to life in time, it would have undergone putrefaction. (Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31)
_

 

[Der Alte]

Like a lot of others I used to think that it referred to the burning garbage dump of Gehenna.
"It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbage—imagine the vile vision. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, his hearers would think of the valley of rotting, worm-infested garbage, where the fire always burned, smoke always lingered, and if the wind blew just right, a smell that sickened the sense wafted in the air.” (pp. 129-30)"
Apparently that was a myth.
"There’s only one problem. There is no biblical support for this, neither is there any literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods to suggest this. Put simply, there is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a perpetually burning garbage dump. In fact, near as anyone can tell, the earliest mention we have of this theory comes a Rabbi named David Kimhi who wrote a commentary on Psalm 27 in the 13th Century. He remarked"
The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna- Myths That'll Preach
All too often we accept things as facts because it "appears to be right.
◄ Proverbs 14:12 ► NIV
There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.

There was a valley near Jerusalem which was used as a garbage/trash dump but it was not the Gehinnom valley it was the Kidron valley..

"Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type....
Excavations near the Temple Mount and within the residential areas have already shown that no waste had accumulated there (Reich and Billig 2000), and thus waste must have been removed, most likely in an organized manner. Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
"
​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm not sure what you are asking. But this is my understanding of events. At the time of the resurrection we will all be given new bodies that are imperishable. Then at the judgment thoses that are saved will be given eternal life. Those that are not saved will be given the second death.

Call it the parable of the the Big Mac. The Big Mac is created imperishable. They won't spoil. However they can still be thrown in the trash and burned.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[Nevada Smith]

I just want to say, body that is dead, may burn forever in hell, it does not mean the body is still alive in there.

And what would be the point of that?

 

[Nevada Smith]

There was a valley near Jerusalem which was used as a garbage/trash dump but it was not the Gehinnom valley it was the Kidron valley..

"Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type....
Excavations near the Temple Mount and within the residential areas have already shown that no waste had accumulated there (Reich and Billig 2000), and thus waste must have been removed, most likely in an organized manner. Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
"
​

Interesting. A Roman garbage dump? That would make sense since there is no mention of Gehenna in the Old Testament.

"but it was not the Gehinnom valley it was the Kidron valley" So what was Christ's references to Gehinnom?

 

[Nevada Smith]

.


Eternal life isn't physical. That's why it's possible to have eternal life and still have to go thru death some day because eternal life isn't meant to give your body immortality. I mean; Jesus had eternal life (John 5:26, 1John 1:1-2) yet he was easily put to death on the cross. And had his body not been restored to life in time, it would have undergone putrefaction. (Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31)
_

Will our resurrection from the dead be the same as Christ's?

Remember Christ was in the tomb three days and three nights. ◄ Matthew 12:40 ►

Rigor mortis: Stiffening of the body, 1-7 hours after death, from hardening of the muscular tissues as a consequence of the coagulation of the myosinogen and paramyosinogen; it disappears after 1-6 days or when decomposition begins.

 

[Saint Steven]

.
• Mark 9:49 . . For everyone will be salted with fire.

The people whose end is the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be permanently salted with fire, but none that stand for a face-to-face with Christ at the judgment seat depicted at 1Cor 3:11-15 will be permanently salted with fire; only just long enough to remove the bad from the good that they accumulated in their service to Christ.

The brimstone of Revelation is meant to ruin people; but the fire spoken of in first Corinthians is only meant to weed out people's useless works; while they themselves will survive, and not be touched by it; viz: the fire of Revelation is destructive, whereas the fire of first Corinthians is purifying.
_

Yes, however, verse 48 gives us a hellish description.

Mark 9:48-49
where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[Saint Steven]

Since eternal life is the gift of Jesus Christ, how is it a sinner without that gift can live in Hell forever?

That's a great question.

 

[Saint Steven]

I just want to say, body that is dead, may burn forever in hell, it does not mean the body is still alive in there.

But what is the point? Why would a dead body need to burn forever?

 

[Der Alte]

Interesting. A Roman garbage dump? That would make sense since there is no mention of Gehenna in the Old Testament.
"but it was not the Gehinnom valley it was the Kidron valley" So what was Christ's references to Gehinnom?

One could do a little research on their own, if one were really interested in the truth.
But I discussed that at length in my first post in this thread which you ignored.
Link: Post about hell