DID GOD DIE ON THE CROSS?

[grafted branch]

This scenario seems to suggest there was some virtue in Adam eating the fruit... ???

I would say it suggests the same type of action that Christ took when he “became sin for us”. From Adams point of view God gave him the propensity to cleave to his wife, so this is what he did. So was this virtuous? We know Jesus did the Fathers will, but when it comes to Adam all we really know is from Genesis. Was it the will of the Father for Adam to cleave to his wife, they were one flesh? Perhaps this is topic would make a good thread on its own.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

Jesus died on the cross.

Jesus is God.

What's the question?

 

[bling]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

Just as we empathetically are crucified with Christ, God experienced crucifixion empathetically with Christ. Why question might be: "Who went through the greater suffering?"

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

Yes, God died on the cross. That's the Incarnation: God the Son became flesh, He was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, born, lived and dwelt among us, suffered and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, died, was buried, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence He will come again as judge of the living and the dead, with everlasting kingdom, world without end.

Acts of the Apostles 20:28 reads,
"Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood."

God's own blood was shed on the cross, because the blood of the man Jesus is the blood of God; because there is one undivided Person of Jesus: fully God and fully human, without confusion or separation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sorry, I misunderstood the question.
God couldn't but Jesus could.
No church that I know of believes that God died on the cross.

It's actually the orthodox teaching of Christianity, and thus is the belief of every mainstream, historic church: Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant.

We do not divide Christ, thus we cannot say "only the man" or "only the Deity". We must always speak of the one and only undivided Person of Jesus, without confusing or separating His humanity and Deity.

Did a man die on the cross? Yes. Because Jesus is human.
Did God die on the cross? Yes. Because Jesus is God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just at add a little to my summary on post #20

Jesus is the 'first born of many bretheren"

Jesus on the cross was shedding mortality and at resurrection was putting on immortality.

We all do exactly that at death as He did.

There is no other way to be in eternity with Him.

Understanding this necessary change takes away the fear of death.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Just at add a little to my summary on post #21

Jesus is the 'first born of many bretheren"

Jesus on the cross was shedding mortality and at resurrection was putting on immortality.

We all do exactly that at death as He did.

There is no other way to be in eternity with Him.

Understanding this necessary change takes away the fear of death.

The transformation of our bodies from mortal to immortal is in the resurrection--you and I won't be raised until the Last Day, at the Lord's Parousia.

Jesus is the firstfruits of that, as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians ch. 15.

Jesus has become the firstborn of many brethren by our adoption in Him, by the Spirit, from God the Father, so that we are joint-heirs with Jesus. By grace Jesus shares His Sonship with us, so that by our mystical union with Jesus Christ (Unio Christo) we are sons and daughters of God the Father, with the Holy Spirit in us, the very Spirit who being alive in us by this gift/grace of God that we can, as the Apostle says, call God "Abba", "Father". The eternal Father of Christ has become our Father by grace and adoption by our union with His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. And it is on account of this union to Christ that we therefore also share in His resurrection, both in this life as grace by our new birth as new creations; and in the end when we also shall be raised up bodily--as the Apostle says we look forward to the "redemption of our bodies" and in the same chapter in Romans says, "If the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead dwells also in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies" (Romans 8:11). And therefore in the resurrection the body is raised up, glorified, transformed from mortal to immortal, soulish to spiritual, decaying to non-decaying.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[fhansen]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

It was absolutely essential that God, in human flesh, died on the cross. That message is huge: God, alone, can save man. And that's what the name "Jesus" implies, in fact.

God lowered and humbled Himself to the point of suffering an excruciatingly humiliating and painful passion and death on a cross at the hands of His own sinful creation to prove a love so unfathomably deep and wide that we can only begin to comprehend and accept it with the help of grace. Now that's the real God. Not at all like ourselves when we play God, or like the "gods"/superheroes of this world.

 

[LostMarbels]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

In the flesh, yes. The spirit, no. Technically it was the word of God that manifest in the flesh that died... That Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Jaxxi]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

Of course not. We know that Jesus, ( The Son) and the LORD, ( The Father) are 2 separate Entities. In Genesis, the LORD says " Let Us make man in Our own image..." so that is the clue that God is plural. Jesus Christ, the Son of Man died on the cross but that is the beauty of it all. Resurrection my friend. Jesus Lives! So in actuality, no NO ONE died on the Cross, and we will not die either. When you get in your car, and drive around, you are not your car and when you are done driving it, you step out of it and keep on moving. So it will be with our bodies. We are not our bodies. We step out and move on.... God bless you and good question!!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well here is my take...

The question is a conundrum...

We have to carefully define terms first.

Was Jesus fully God ?

Yes - He chose to take human limitations while on earth but was fully God.

Did He die? Yes but we first must define death - The body stopped working, the Spirit departed.

Did the Spirit die? No...

Did the flesh die - yes

Did Jesus who is God die? Yes

Did The Spirit in Jesus who is God also die - No.

By the way I don't think "My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me" is evidence of separation for two reasons.

1. Jesus had taken on human limitations and didn't know for a time all the plans of the Father (Him not knowing the day of His second coming is a case in point) Because of this He perceived his plight as separation when His Father was right there with Him.

2. Psalms werent numbered and were referenced by key verses - often first verses. He was quoting Psalm 22:1 to indicate the fulfillment of the Psalm - He was not declaring He was separated. (Look at verse 3)

I recall Jesus saying, "before Abraham was, I am"

So yeah, fully human, fully God even then.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Of course not. We know that Jesus, ( The Son) and the LORD, ( The Father) are 2 separate Entities. In Genesis, the LORD says " Let Us make man in Our own image..." so that is the clue that God is plural. Jesus Christ, the Son of Man died on the cross but that is the beauty of it all. Resurrection my friend. Jesus Lives! So in actuality, no NO ONE died on the Cross, and we will not die either. When you get in your car, and drive around, you are not your car and when you are done driving it, you step out of it and keep on moving. So it will be with our bodies. We are not our bodies. We step out and move on.... God bless you and good question!!

Christ and His Father are one and the same God.

Christ is God, He is God the Son.
Christ died on the cross. That means God the Son died on the cross. Because that's WHO Jesus is.

Of course the Father and the Holy Spirit didn't die.
But the Son did.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

In reading some of the comments there seems to be a misunderstanding of God's nature. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was fully divine and fully human. He was God in the flesh. This is the Trinity doctrine.
Be blessed.

 

[prodromos]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

The person, Jesus Christ, who is God, truly died on the cross. He could only do so after becoming man.

 

[RushMAN]

Hi there,

How comfortable are we with this suggestion?

Is this a case of applying human reason to the mysteries of God and coming out with an invalid answer?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Do some churches insist on believing this?

Yes as a few have stated here God died on the cross, Jesus is not two separate entities, but one. Christ is 100 percent man and 100 percent God at the same time and can't just be separated out. All of Christ died on the cross

 

[ewq1938]

All of Christ died on the cross

No. Only the human part, his body, died on the cross. The divine part cannot die and that part of Christ left the dead human body and remained alive. That was the part he commended to his Father's hands.

Luk_23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The second person of the Trinity has always been immortal and unable to die, the same as his Father. This is why he had to come here to be born of a woman in a mortal body to die as the Lamb of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus died on the Cross, the Father did not die on the Cross.

he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, (Ephesians 1:20)

The Father was able to "exert himself" and resurrect Jesus.

No resurrection, no Christianity.

 

[RushMAN]

No. Only the human part, his body, died on the cross. The divine part cannot die and that part of Christ left the dead human body and remained alive. That was the part he commended to his Father's hands.

Luk_23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The second person of the Trinity has always been immortal and unable to die, the same as his Father. This is why he had to come here to be born of a woman in a mortal body to die as the Lamb of God.

As was stated in the thread by @Knee V that idea is Nestorianism heresy

 

[ewq1938]

As was stated in the thread by @Knee V that idea is Nestorianism heresy

That's incorrect. Nestorianism is the doctrine that there were two separate persons, one human and one divine. I don't believe he was two separate persons because the bible doesn't support that nor does the bible support that "God died".

Only the human body died that God the Son inhabited. Nothing that was divine died nor could have died.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That's incorrect. Nestorianism is the doctrine that there were two separate persons, one human and one divine. I don't believe he was two separate persons because the bible doesn't support that nor does the bible support that "God died".

Only the human body died that God the Son inhabited. Nothing that was divine died nor could have died.

I find a good work around is that Jesus died, and is God,

and then.

Jesus died, but the two other trinity members did not die.

Mostly because of the trinity diagram.

Since Jesus cannot be separated from His divine nature, the other two probably shared the experience with Him in some way or another - but did not die, or the resurrection would have been impossible.