Kylie's Pool Challenge, Mark II

[Hammster]

I never ruled it out .. Others do though .. which is their prerogative .. because that also comes along with the (human) concept of free will (which you admitted).

The OP has ruled it out. But I don’t know what that has to do with free will, or what free will has to do with this discussion.

 

[Allandavid]

So it is possible. Thanks.

Of course it is possible.....but, without further evidence, so is Kylie’s ‘magic pixie’ scenario.

You see, with insufficient evidence to either support or contradict, you can make up virtually any story to explain a phenomenon.....

 

[Allandavid]

If my belief means that I must be obedient to Christ, then, by your own arguments, I must proclaim the gospel. And you should respect that. You don’t, however, need to reply.

Not quite. Your imperative to be ‘obedient’ is a bit like the question of your rights....and they end at the ‘tip of my nose’, don’t they? You get the right to hold your beliefs, but not to the extent that they can be used as a threat towards others...

 

[SelfSim]

The OP has ruled it out.

Its what we mean by her choice!

But I don’t know what that has to do with free will, or what free will has to do with this discussion.

Show me how you could possibly discuss this topic without admitting to being human!?
Free will is a concept. Concepts are indistinguishable from an active human mind! There's your relevance!
Now get real, eh?

 

[Hammster]

Of course it is possible.....but, without further evidence, so is Kylie’s ‘magic pixie’ scenario.

You see, with insufficient evidence to either support or contradict, you can make up virtually any story to explain a phenomenon.....

Her magic pixie scenario is possible if she is introducing fantasy fiction. She hasn’t done so, to my knowledge, so at this point, it’s not possible.

 

[Hammster]

Not quite. Your imperative to be ‘obedient’ is a bit like the question of your rights....and they end at the ‘tip of my nose’, don’t they? You get the right to hold your beliefs, but not to the extent that they can be used as a threat towards others...

Have you ever been under anyone’s authority?

 

[Hammster]

Its what we mean by her choice!

Show me how you could possibly discuss this topic without admitting to being human!?
Free will is a concept. Concepts are indistinguishable from an active human mind! There's your relevance!
Now get real, eh?

I’m still not sure how you think this relates to the topic.

 

[SelfSim]

Not quite. Your imperative to be ‘obedient’ is a bit like the question of your rights....and they end at the ‘tip of my nose’, don’t they? You get the right to hold your beliefs, but not to the extent that they can be used as a threat towards others...

.. and now there is no doubt that they are his threats .. and not something coming from something which exists independently from him!
Now let's talk about 'suppressions from unrighteousness'!

 

[SelfSim]

I’m still not sure how you think this relates to the topic.

You are now providing objective evidence of your suppression of that message, 'in getting through', due to the human concept of 'unrighteousness' dominating your mind!

 

[Hammster]

You are now providing objective evidence of your suppression of that message, 'in getting through', due to the human concept of 'unrighteousness' dominating your mind!

Mkay.

 

[Allandavid]

Have you ever been under anyone’s authority?

Yes, almost my entire life. Initially my parents and then the general laws of my society. Neither of whom would expect me to target another because of their beliefs...

 

[Allandavid]

Her magic pixie scenario is possible if she is introducing fantasy fiction. She hasn’t done so, to my knowledge, so at this point, it’s not possible.

Then your knowledge appears to be insufficient.

Kylie included the following as an option in the OP...

“saying that evidence could have been caused by lots of things,”

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

FrumiousBandersnatch said: ↑
... Do you believe in Horus? Anubis? Zeus? You know about them - do you deny that any of them is God? are you suppressing that truth? Are you doing so because of unrighteousness?

No, no, no, yes, no, no.

That's exactly how I (and most atheists) feel about Horus, Anubis, the Abrahamic God, and Zeus; i.e. they're all just human fictions. As the aphorism has it, we simply believe in one less god than you do.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, almost my entire life. Initially my parents and then the general laws of my society. Neither of whom would expect me to target another because of their beliefs...

That’s not the point. As I pointed out earlier, this contains my marching orders.


Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
— Matthew 28:19-20

So while your authority has you do things, my Authority does as well. And my Authority runs the universe.

 

[Hammster]

Then your knowledge appears to be insufficient.

Kylie included the following as an option in the OP...

“saying that evidence could have been caused by lots of things,”

And you think fantasy was intended?

 

[Hammster]

That's exactly how I (and most atheists) feel about Horus, Anubis, the Abrahamic God, and Zeus; i.e. they're all just human fictions. As the aphorism has it, we simply believe in one less god than you do.

I completely understand.

 

[SelfSim]

So while your authority has you do things, my Authority does as well. And my Authority runs the universe.

It appears that Authority doesn't 'run' the freedom to choose part of the universe though(?)

 

[SelfSim]

And you think fantasy was intended?

Possible speculative options precede the formulation of objectively testable hypotheses, in science.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Her magic pixie scenario is possible if she is introducing fantasy fiction. She hasn’t done so, to my knowledge, so at this point, it’s not possible.

The same can be said of the religious view involving a god or gods.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I completely understand.

So you should see how the the scripture attributed to Paul that you quoted is mistaken - people that don't believe in the Abrahamic God no more deny it because they are 'suppressing that truth because of unrighteousness' than you deny other gods because you are 'suppressing that truth because of unrighteousness'.