Luke 17:26-37 taken where?

[Douggg]

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

(Corresponds to Matthew 24:28. during the great tribulation.)

The ones taken and ones left - is not the rapture in Luke 17, but them taken to be forced to bow to the statue image of the beast or be killed. When the Jews see that statue image on the temple mount grounds, they need to flee to the mountains right away.



Differently, the ones taken in Matthew 24:40-41, the ones taken are taken in the rapture.



Luke 17:26-37 is a message to the Jews, Israel, who will go through the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:15-31 is a message to the Jews, Israel, who will go through the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:32-51 is a message to Christians, the church, who escape going through the great tribulation, via the rapture.

 

[TribulationSigns]

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

(Corresponds to Matthew 24:28. during the great tribulation.)

The ones taken and ones left - is not the rapture in Luke 17, but them taken to be forced to bow to the statue image of the beast or be killed. When the Jews see that statue image on the temple mount grounds, they need to flee to the mountains right away.

Correct. The one taken and one left is not about the rapture. Rather it is when God took His people out of unfaithful congregation which is a dead body. Elects are gathered together upon God's mountain to prophesy her judgment.

Selah.

 

[ewq1938]

The one taken and one left happens the day Christ returns so naturally the one taken is speaking of the rapture while the one left is not raptured. It's literally those saved and those left to be punished.

The one taken is taken into the safety of the Ark and ends up in a safe place, 8 family members accepted. That's what paralambano¯ means. The ones left/aphie¯mi were not worthy of being on the Ark...and that's what aphie¯mi means, to reject and divorce and leave to die...the opposite of what paralambano¯ means.

In all the examples Christ gives in the end of Matthew 24 and in 25, there is always two groups. The first are always the righteous who are saved, and the last group are the wicked who perish or suffer some negative fate. There is really no excuse to get it backwards in the one taken and one left. The order of events match all the other examples and the Greek definitions further prove that it is the one taken who is saved and the one left who is not.

Happens first ..................................................................Happens last

Good-Noah and family.....................................................Bad-the rest/drowned
Good-Lot and his family......(Luke 17)...............................Bad-those left in the city
Good-the one taken/accepted...........................................Bad-the one left/rejected
Good-the goodman..........................................................Bad-the thief
Good-the wise servant.....................................................Bad-the evil servant
Good-the wise virgins......................................................Bad-the foolish virgins
Good-the servants that increased the talents.....................Bad-the servant that did not have an increase
Good-the sheep...............................................................Bad-the goats

The saved people............................................................The punished people



In these verses Christ will give multiple examples to teach the same exact thing. There is always a good one on one side and a bad one on the other. The good one is always shown in some type of action FIRST, and the bad one is always LAST.



All on the left side represent the same group of people that are good, wise, profitable, accepted etc.

 

[Douggg]

The one taken and one left happens the day Christ returns so naturally the one taken is speaking of the rapture while the one left is not raptured. It's literally those saved and those left to be punished.

But in Luke 17 the ones taken, their bodies is where the eagles are gathered. Eagles gather to feast on dead bodies.

The ones taken in Luke 17 are not taken in the rapture. But are taken and will die.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


No left where, but taken where the eagles be gathered together.

 

[ewq1938]

But in Luke 17 the ones taken, their bodies is where the eagles are gathered.

Yes they are bodily taken to Armageddon but they are with Christ, not part of the beasts army that is slain there.

 

[Douggg]

Yes they are bodily taken to Armageddon but they are with Christ, not part of the beasts army that is slain there.

It is indicating that the ones taken will be killed.

Why will they be killed?

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[ewq1938]

It is indicating that the ones taken will be killed.

I disagree. It only says the one taken is taken there it does not say they die there. Those who are raptured are indeed taken there to witness that battle and will see the birds feasting on the dead bodies.

Additionally the Greek word for TAKEN does not mean to die or be killed but the Greek word for LEFT does have that meaning, from the Strong's: "to leave on dying"

left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

 

[Douggg]

I disagree. It only says the one taken is taken there it does not say they die there. Those who are raptured are indeed taken there to witness that battle and will see the birds feasting on the dead bodies.

The implication is that they will die. Because fleeing to the mountains means leaving everything behind, losing the life they had built up. But if they don't flee, that life they seek to preserve, they will lose their actual life - i.e. be killed.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

But in Luke 17 the ones taken, their bodies is where the eagles are gathered. Eagles gather to feast on dead bodies.

There is only ONE BODY that the Eagles will be gathered together. It is the body of an unfaithful New Testament congregation who is spiritually dead. Gathered together means to prophesy judgment upon unfaithful harlot. As it is written:

Revelation 18:8-10 KJV
[8] Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
[9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
[10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

This is the dead body of one woman the Lord talked about in Revelation 18. The kings of the Earth are God's Elect who once committed fornication within her but have come out out her and witness (prophesy) judgment upon her.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I disagree. It only says the one taken is taken there it does not say they die there. Those who are raptured are indeed taken there to witness that battle and will see the birds feasting on the dead bodies.

God does not talk about birds feeding upon physical dead bodies. It is a spiritual picture of the unfaithful church who is spiritually dead where Elects are prophesying judgment upon her for the Lord is speaking through His Elect.

 

[Douggg]

There is only ONE BODY that the Eagles will be gathered together.

It is many bodies. Individuals from different walks of life, in Luke 17:34-36.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[ewq1938]

God does not talk about birds feeding upon physical dead bodies.

He does in the gospels and Revelation 19.

 

[ewq1938]

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The birds are on the ground because they are eating the carcass. It is the scene of the second coming of Rev 19 that Christ is talking about. The one taken is taken to be with Christ in the rapture and they are with Christ at the same battle where birds feast on the bodies of the dead. The dead were not taken there but came there on their own because they are the army of the beast.


Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Second coming passage and birds eat the dead.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.



Christ is clearly prophesying about the events of Rev 19.

The one taken is taken to be with Christ and Christ then takes them to the battle of Armageddon to witness the defeat of the army of the beast and the beast itself.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The implication is that they will die. Because fleeing to the mountains means leaving everything behind, losing the life they had built up. But if they don't flee, that life they seek to preserve, they will lose their actual life - i.e. be killed.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

No, no, no! God is not talking about Jews fleeing their homes in Israel, leaving everything behind and run for a literal mountain somewhere. That is the false doctrine of premillennialist. For Israel is NOW New Testament congregation of Israel. You are looking at wrong Israel. The Church is a New Testament representative of God's kingdom all over the world wherever True Christians (Two Witnesses) are. But the external part of the church has become unfaithful where Elect can see their abominations and has come out of her and prophesy judgment upon her. She is being judged by God where He has allowed false prophets and christs coming into her and deceive the unfaithful people of the congregation as a judgment because they did not love the Truth where they have approved abominations within their church! Eg. homosexual pastor, marriage, women in position, propersity gospel, entertainment with worldy music, lights, etc. etc!!

As for Lot's wife, God is paining a spiritual picture that there are many professed Christians who have left the church at first but longed for fellowship or did not see anything wrong with their church so they turn back to their unfaithful congregation. That is how they are being judged.

 

[Douggg]

God does not talk about birds feeding upon physical dead bodies. It is a spiritual picture of the unfaithful church who is spiritually dead where Elects are prophesying judgment upon her for the Lord is speaking through His Elect.

Eagles gathering to eat the dead bodies of salmon is a common occurrence in Alaska, for example.

 

[Douggg]

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The birds are on the ground because they are eating the carcass. It is the scene of the second coming of Rev 19 that Christ is talking about. The one taken is taken to be with Christ in the rapture and they are with Christ at the same battle where birds feast on the bodies of the dead. The dead were not taken there but came there on their own because they are the army of the beast.


Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Second coming passage and birds eat the dead.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.



Christ is clearly prophesying about the events of Rev 19.

The one taken is taken to be with Christ and Christ then takes them to the battle of Armageddon to witness the defeat of the army of the beast and the beast itself.

Yes, there will be eagles there to feast on the dead bodies of the armies gathered to make war on Jesus. No-one who has been raptured dies in that event. Them raptured will be returning with Jesus in His armies of heaven.

But the ones in Luke 17 are taken, and their fate is to be killed for not worshiping the image of the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, there will be eagles there to feast on the dead bodies of the armies gathered to make war on Jesus. No-one who has been raptured dies in that event.

But the ones in Luke 17 are taken, and their fate is to be killed for not worshiping the image of the beast.

And I disagree. That is the fate of the ones LEFT (to leave on dying). It also have the meaning of being REJECTED which also applies to the unsaved. Furthermore, all this happens when Christ returns and he doesn't take anyone anywhere so they can die. He comes TO the ones that will die.

 

[TribulationSigns]

He does in the gospels and Revelation 19.

Please read the verses carefully:

Revelation 19:15-18 KJV
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This is not the carcass of the BODY of "Corporate church" in Matthew 24. This is the carcass of all that Christ has slain with the brightness of His coming -- all those who worship the beast, all those who are captives in the city of Babylon, all those who fight against God. The whole world! Revelation 19 is not talking about the judgment of the woman (His unfaithful congregation).

The "fowls that fly in the MIDST of heaven" are feeding on the slain they are neither the wicked or the believers - they represent Christ's victory in battle. All the wicked are slain by the judgment of Christ. He is the rider on the white horse "He judges and wars in righteousness." (Rev 19:11) His judgment is by a sharp sword that proceeds from His mouth. That is the Word of God, by which Christ smites the nations.

This has nothing to do with Eagles gathered together to prophesy judgment upon the unfaithful congregation which takes place BEFORE Revelation 19 and the Second Coming.

 

[Douggg]

And I disagree. That is the fate of the ones LEFT (to leave on dying). It also have the meaning of being REJECTED which also applies to the unsaved. Furthermore, all this happens when Christ returns and he doesn't take anyone anywhere so they can die. He comes TO the ones that will die.

There were three examples given in Luke 17

verse 36 two men in one bed (a bed is normally in a dwelling).
verse 35 two women grinding
verse 36 two men in a field (tending to crops can be reasonably assumed)

The eagles are not going to gather at the house, the grinding place, nor the field - the place where the ones who are left.

It is the ones taken in Luke 17, who are going to die.

The eagles gather at where there are dead bodies, corpses of people having been killed.
Which will be near the temple mount for people who refuse to worship the statue image of the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

There were three examples given in Luke 17

verse 36 two men in one bed
verse 35 two women grinding
verse 36 two men in one field

The eagles are not going to gather at the house, the grinding place, nor the field - the place where the ones who are left.

Some are set in thousand years day and one at night as well but those details are only part of the examples not the actuality of the event that happens when Christ returns. The ones taken will be taken somewhere by Christ and the rest are left to their fate.

It is the ones taken in Luke 17, who are going to die.

No, they are taken somewhere by Christ. The Greek word for TAKEN means to be accepted.

The eagles gather at where there are dead bodies, corpses of people having been killed.

Yes and only the Greek word used for LEFT means to die.

Which will be near the temple mount for people who refuse to worship the statue image of the beast.

That happens LONG before the day of the taking and leaving.