Was the Last Supper a Seder?

AbbaLove

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HARK!, ralliann, HARK!, ralliann, HARK!, ralliann, HARK!, ralliann, HARK!, ralliann, etc and etc. Reminds me of a husband and wife who both think they're right when it's just as likely they're both wrong. In this case ralliann is definitely in the wrong (1 Corinthians14:34-35).
This would mean that Yahshua was not slaughtered on the 14th with the Passover lambs.
Yes, we disagree.
(referring to ralliann's apparent belief that Yahshua was slain on Nisan 15)
The Word of GOD never instructed the Israelites to roast and eat the Passover lambs, with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on Nisan 15(Exodus 12:8). ralliann does a disservice to the Word of GOD by mistakenly giving the impression it's ok to deviate from the command of GOD (Exodus 12:6-12). The Israelites ate roasted lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on Nisan 14 (read Exodus 12:8).

Apparently ralliann doesn't read or believe the Torah of GOD that commands that the roasted Passover lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs (Exodus 12:8) is to be consumed on Nisan 14. Instead she would rather follow some man-made religious belief. It's as if she will not take to heart Exodus 12:6-12 pointing out the error in her thinking.

Exodus 12:6-12 (Complete Jewish Bible))
6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the door frames of the houses where they eat the lambs.
8 That night, they are to eat the meat, roasted in the fire; they are to eat it with matzah and maror.
9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs.
10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it.
11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.
12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord.

Exodus 12:6-12 (King James Version)
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.​

The lambs are to be slaughtered between sunset and sundown (time span of about 70 minutes) and nighttime at the beginning of Nisan 14. This is how "between the evenings" (twilight) was understood by Moses and the Israelites when the lambs were to be slain. HARK! and ralliann's belief is an example of how like sheep people can be led astray by man-made religious traditions.

The Pharisees and Sadducees changed the original meaning of "ben ha-erebim" (between the evenings) from sunset to sundown (about 70 minutes) to from noon to sunset (about six hours in Jerusalem that time of the year). Probably for their own convenience and the convenience of the people. ralliann believes the Feast of Unleavened Bread with roasted lamb, unleavened bread and bitter herbs was during Nisan 15 during the time of Yeshua/Yahshua.

Both HARK! and ralliann have been led astray by a man-made religious tradition that deviates from the Torah (Exodus 12:6-12).

Exodus 12:6 (YLT)
6 `And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;​

For someone to actually believe that "ben ha-erebim" (between the evenings) actually means from noon to sunset only goes to show how easily people, like sheep, can be led astray. Like some religious people that believe when an infant is sprinkled with holy water they are saved and born again. Can you ever talk them out of it? Not likely if they are loyal to their denominational beliefs. In a similar way ralliann and possibly HARK! are both blind to Exodus 12:6-12 and the command of GOD for the Israelites to observe both Pesach and Unleavened Bread beginning on Nisan 14 (Exodus 14:8) ...

8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night (Nisan 14), roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. (KJV)
8 That night (Nisan 14), they are to eat the meat, roasted in the fire; they are to eat it with matzah and maror. (CJB)​
 
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HARK!

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The Word of GOD never instructed the Israelites to roast and eat the Passover lambs, with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on Nisan 15(Exodus 12:8). ralliann does a disservice to the Word of GOD by mistakenly giving the impression it's ok to deviate from the command of GOD (Exodus 12:6-12). The Israelites ate roasted lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on Nisan 14 (read Exodus 12:8).

Sundown the 14th begins. Sun up, it's still the 14th.

(CLV) Ex 12:6
And it will become a charge of yours until the fourteenth day of this month. Then they will slay it, every assembly of the congregation of the sons of Israel, between the evening hours.

The lamb must be slaughtered, not eaten, on the 14th, during daylight hours.

(CLV) Ex 12:7
And they will take some of the blood and put it on the two jambs and on the lintel, on the houses in which they are eating it.

(CLV) Ex 12:8
Then they will eat the flesh on this night, roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.

This night (the one that follows the daylight hours of the 14th) is the 15th, the first day of Hag Matzot.
 
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HARK!

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The lambs are to be slaughtered between sunset and sundown (time span of about 70 minutes)

We've already been over this. I can see that you don't even honor Passover according to the Torah. If you did; you would know that there is no way, that you can cut a lambs throat; hang it from a tree; drain all of the blood out of it; take it back down, and get it prepped for the fire; then roast it through and through, with it's innards in 70 minutes.
 
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HARK!

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Can you ever talk them out of it? Not likely if they are loyal to their denominational beliefs.

I don't follow men. I follow Torah. I wait until the barley is Abib; then I count from the first visible crescent. Do you do the same; or do you follow the flawed Hillel calendar?

Let's talk about it.
 
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chunkofcoal

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We've already been over this. I can see that you don't even honor Passover according to the Torah. If you did; you would know that there is no way, that you can cut a lambs throat; hang it from a tree; drain all of the blood out of it; take it back down, and get it prepped for the fire; then roast it through and through, with it's innards in 70 minutes.

Hark, how do you interpret this scripture?
Deu 16:2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.
Does the Samaritan torah not include this verse? If it does, wouldn't it mean for them (you?) that the sacrifice is supposed to be on Mount Gerizim?
 
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HARK!

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Hark, how do you interpret this scripture?
Deu 16:2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.
Does the Samaritan torah not include this verse? If it does, wouldn't it mean for them (you?) that the sacrifice is supposed to be on Mount Gerizim?

I have been aware of this issue for since I was a child; but I haven't studied it out. I don't believe that it affects me; and I haven't had an opportunity to talk to a Samaritan.

Here is how I interpret the scripture regarding myself:

Up until the Temple was built, including the lifetime of David, we were in the Tabernacle period. When the Temple was destroyed; and YHWH exiled his people from the land; we returned to a Tabernacle period, in my humble opinion.

We, each family of Yah's people, are still called to eat the Passover, in a way as commanded to Moses, and followed up throughout David's life, in this Tabernacle period.

These instructions are for all generations, forever, in my understanding of scripture.
 
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chunkofcoal

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I have been aware of this issue for since I was a child; but I haven't studied it out. I don't believe that it affects me; and I haven't had an opportunity to talk to a Samaritan.

Here is how I interpret the scripture regarding myself:

Up until the Temple was built, including the lifetime of David, we were in the Tabernacle period. When the Temple was destroyed; and YHWH exiled his people from the land; we returned to a Tabernacle period, in my humble opinion.

We, each family of Yah's people, are still called to eat the Passover, in a way as commanded to Moses, and followed up throughout David's life, in this Tabernacle period.

These instructions are for all generations, forever, in my understanding of scripture.
Thanks for the reply.
 
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AbbaLove

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The lamb must be slaughtered, not eaten, on the 14th, during daylight hours.
That contradicts 12:8 and the other verses as 12:6-12 that all refer to Nisan 14. You have been unduly influenced by the man-made religious tradition further perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. It's plain as can be that Exodus 12:8 is referring to Nisan 14 and not the 15th as you mistakenly believe ...
Ex 12:8 (CLV)
Then they will eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.​

This night (the one that follows the daylight hours of the 14th) is the 15th, the first day of Hag Matzot.
Yes, that is the man-made religious tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. Exodus 12:6-12 clearly indicates that Passover, unleavened bread and bitter herbs were to be eaten during the evening of Nisan 14 ...

(CLV) Ex 12:8
Then they will eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.​

You seem more interested in adhering to the man-made religious tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism that the Feast of Unleavened Bread should no longer be on Nisan 14, when in fact all of Exodus 12:6-12 is about Nisan 14 including eating unleavened bread. You've got to be blind not see that Exodus 12:6-12 all takes place on Nisan 14. Thus, you are ignoring Yahweh's Torah command to ... "eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it." You adhere instead to a man-made tradition as if that is more important.

In affect because you would rather believe the man-made tradition as perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism you reject 12:8 deciding instead to follow a religious tradition. So what else is new under the sun. Then if that isn't enough of a blunder you actually believe that "ben ha-erebim" (between the evenings) is from noon to sunset during daylight on the 14th.
Even though it's a man-made tradition Yahweh (Father GOD) knew that the Pesach perfect lamb without blemish would be slain at 3pm the same time that Yeshua/Yahshua the Lamb of Yahweh was crucified and dying.

The "last supper" or as some call it a pre-seder to a new covenant took place on Nisan 14, according to the timeline of GOD'S command in Exodus 12:6-12 occurring on the 14th including verse 8 ...

"eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it."

Perhaps, you failed once again to read or post verse 18, because it doesn't agree with your man-made religious tradition ...

Exodus 12:18 (CLV)
18 In the first month on the *fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall *eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the *evening.
 
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HARK!

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That contradicts 12:8 and the other verses as 12:6-12 that all refer to Nisan 14. You have been unduly influenced by the man-made religious tradition further perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. It's plain as can be that Exodus 12:8 is referring to Nisan 14 and not the 15th which was later introduced by the Pharisees and Sadducees ...
Ex 12:8 (CLV)
Then they will eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.

This is your opinion and it doesn't follow logic. I don't follow Rabbinic Judaism. I follow scripture. Here is a prime example of how you've jumped to conclusions.

Repeating your failed logical argument, in absence of new facts, doesn't make your case.

Let's talk more about your 70 minute lamb, from slaughter, to the table. I'd like you to share your technique with me.
 
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pinacled

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We've already been over this. I can see that you don't even honor Passover according to the Torah. If you did; you would know that there is no way, that you can cut a lambs throat; hang it from a tree; drain all of the blood out of it; take it back down, and get it prepped for the fire; then roast it through and through, with it's innards in 70 minutes.
A lambs throat was never cut for preparatation.
 
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pinacled

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That contradicts 12:8 and the other verses as 12:6-12 that all refer to Nisan 14. You have been unduly influenced by the man-made religious tradition further perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. It's plain as can be that Exodus 12:8 is referring to Nisan 14 and not the 15th as you mistakenly believe ...
Ex 12:8 (CLV)
Then they will eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.​

Yes, that is the man-made religious tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism. Exodus 12:6-12 clearly indicates that Passover, unleavened bread and bitter herbs were to be eaten during the evening of Nisan 14 ...

(CLV) Ex 12:8
Then they will eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.​

You seem more interested in adhering to the man-made religious tradition perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism that the Feast of Unleavened Bread should no longer be on Nisan 14, when in fact all of Exodus 12:6-12 is about Nisan 14 including eating unleavened bread. You've got to be blind not see that Exodus 12:6-12 all takes place on Nisan 14. Thus, you are ignoring Yahweh's Torah command to ... "eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it." You adhere instead to a man-made tradition as if that is more important.

In affect because you would rather believe the man-made tradition as perpetuated by Rabbinic Judaism you reject 12:8 deciding instead to follow a religious tradition. So what else is new under the sun. Then if that isn't enough of a blunder you actually believe that "ben ha-erebim" (between the evenings) is from noon to sunset during daylight on the 14th.
Even though it's a man-made tradition Yahweh (Father GOD) knew that the Pesach perfect lamb without blemish would be slain at 3pm the same time that Yeshua/Yahshua the Lamb of Yahweh was crucified and dying.

The "last supper" or as some call it a pre-seder to a new covenant took place on Nisan 14, according to the timeline of GOD'S command in Exodus 12:6-12 occurring on the 14th including verse 8 ...

"eat the flesh on this night (14th), roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it."

Perhaps, you failed once again to read or post verse 18, because it doesn't agree with your man-made religious tradition ...

Exodus 12:18 (CLV)
18 In the first month on the *fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall *eat unleavened cakes until the twenty-first day of the month, in the *evening.
Harks influence is far from man made tradition
 
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HARK!

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There is No need to do so.

Question:
For all readers

Did The Lord Yeshua ever have his throat slit by the enemy?

That's an extremely weak argument. He wasn't roasted by fire either.

The sons of Israel, who stayed in the land of Israel since Joseph, and have continued in their Passover tradition without missing a beat (the Samaritans) ; cut the throat of the lamb to drain the blood. I haven't met anyone who butchers their own livestock, to this day, who doesn't use this same humane technique. I haven't met a deer hunter who doesn't cut the throat to drain the blood. It's efficient and humane.
 
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pinacled

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That's an extremely weak argument. He was roasted by fire either.
The Lord endured far as i can see.

The only victim of a sliced throat was The Lords friend the levite.

And it is a filthy remnant that teaches otherwise.
 
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HARK!

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The Lord endured far as i can see.

The only victim of a sliced throat was The Lords friend the levite.

And it is a filthy remnant that teaches otherwise.

That's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Speculation is fun; but I'll just go with the empirical evidence.
 
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