Breaking Mask Requirements to Red States

[KCfromNC]

What we know about the efficacy can change and it did since then. We know more now how effective they are.

Do you like to eat at restaurants where the cooks use the bathroom and then don't wash their hands before handling your food?

That's a good point. I mean, it might seem like a good idea for them to wash their hands after using the bathroom, but what about their freedom to choose? And maybe one of them saw a months old youtube video quoting another video saying that washing their hands wasn't effective. And really, how many of you have done the research first hand to really know that they need to instead of blindly accepting the science on faith?

 

[KCfromNC]

This virus is more of a tool than a disease.

Despite that it seems pretty effective at killing people. So I'm not even sure what this objection is supposed to mean. Do you?

 

[LostMarbels]

What was that you were just saying about strawmen?

Do you see the scare quotes denoting sarcasm? Hmm?

Here's a crazy idea: how about we do all three? I can wear a mask, practice social distancing, and practice proper hygiene all at the same time. Coincidentally, that's what the CDC recommends as well. Do you have any evidence that wearing masks is causing people to take unnecessary risks that they wouldn't otherwise?

The problem with the mask is not the masks themselves. The problem is with those who believe they can force an issue on me even arresting or fining me for something that doesn't even work.

You can go wear a mask. Leave me be. But we can't do that, can we? We need to make absolutely certain everyone holds to what you believe is necessary.

My understanding is that it's not really airborne on that level. It's mainly carried on droplets of saliva and mucus that you experience when you breathe/talk/sing/cough/sneeze/etc. These don't stay in the air very long and are relatively easy to filter out.

No it's not, but they sure make it out to be like that. People tell you are trying to kill children just because you don't have a face mask on. It isn't even that contagious, but you better wear one anyways.

relatively easy to filter out.

Not with a N95 or below it isn't. Look it up. N95 only filters an estimated 95% of .3 microns. Covid-19 is .06 to .14 microns. You are not filtering a darn thing. Stupid mask is nothing but a status symbol. Cloth mask? Forget it... won't even catch dust or sand from driving down a dirt road.

 

[-57]

What makes you think they're wrong?


Citation needed. You certainly haven't provided any scientific facts in this thread so far.

You can start by debunking the video....then let me know if you know what a fit test is.

 

[-57]

I appreciate the irony of another attempt to ignore the subject, even when the subject is the pattern of using right-wing propaganda to ignore a subject.

The topic of masks is beginning to bore me.

 

[Speedwell]

View attachment 281032
Do you see the scare quotes denoting sarcasm? Hmm?



The problem with the mask is not the masks themselves. The problem is with those who believe they can force an issue on me even arresting or fining me for something that doesn't even work.

You can go wear a mask. Leave me be. But we can't do that, can we? We need to make absolutely certain everyone holds to what you believe is necessary.



No it's not, but they sure make it out to be like that. People tell you are trying to kill children just because you don't have a face mask on. It isn't even that contagious, but you better wear one anyways.



Not with a N95 or below it isn't. Look it up. N95 only filters an estimated 95% of .3 microns. Covid-19 is .06 to .14 microns. You are not filtering a darn thing. Stupid mask is nothing but a status symbol. Cloth mask? Forget it... won't even catch dust or sand from driving down a dirt road.

The mask does its best work in reducing the odds that a person who already has the virus will spread it. That is, a person should be wearing a mask more for other's protection, rather than his own. But he doesn't want to because his head is packed with politically motivated misinformation which he prefers to the truth because it feeds his biases. What to do? Providing the correct information doesn't seem to help. I'm afraid the only answer is the force of law.

 

[-57]

The mask does its best work in reducing the odds that a person who already has the virus will spread it. /QUOTE]

When those odds are scientifically presented...measured...get back to us.

 

[SimplyMe]

It's delusional. Honest question because I find it important. How many here are APR/PAPR/SCBA certified or licensed for hazmat at or above IDLH warm zone response?

Why is that important? People who have had zero training, have never sat in a class, or have never been in a lethal environment are running around thinking they are safe by improperly using paper respirators, PPE's, and cloth masks. The entire notion is feeding off of fear from ignorance.

What is being discussed... is a paper or cloth mask used to keep a contagion from spreading. Why don't professionals/first responders use paper masks when working with level C3 contagion? This is half/full mask APR/PAPR territory. Paper masks are level D. No IDLH. (Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health) A contagion, is at, or above IDLH.

Since you brought up the point about strawman, perhaps you should use the same cartoon on this post -- it has been stated multiple times that masks do not prevent YOU from getting the virus, rather they help prevent others from catching the virus from you. So yes, this is a strawman since no one is claiming a cloth or paper mask will prevent an individual from catching the virus.

Have you ever actually looked at how many people do not wear a mask correctly? The bridge of their nose, or their nose is outside of the mask. And if you got a beard, or large enough mustache you are breathing through your facial hair.

Then there are the masks themselves. How many days have you been breathing your warm, most breath through that filter? How many germ and bacteria colonies are you rebreathing? How about sweat? If you have a washable mask, what are you washing it in? What chemicals are you inhaling all day from that laundry detergent and fabric softener that smells so good?

How about contaminates and decontamination? Whenever you leave a contaminated area you need to throw away whatever PPE you utilized in that area, wash up, and use new PPE for the next area. Is that being adhered to? If not, you are doing nothing except carrying that contamination with you. And putting it right back on your face in the next area. And then you have people that wear the same gloves, that have everything they have ever came in contact with all day long all over them, going from one place to the next touching things. Brilliant!!

This is a nightmare in the terms of actually spreading a virus.

So should we tell people they don't need to wash their hands anymore since most people don't do it properly -- if they do it at all? Should we discontinue driver training since so many people forget or ignore basic concepts they are supposed to have learned there, and we continue to have accidents for inattentive and distracted driving? More to the point, should we tell people to quit doing these things since they "don't work" and see if that makes us (and them) safer?

This point is ludicrous, the idea that if people don't do something correctly that we should just quit doing it altogether, and even talk about how it won't work, rather than try to educate and improve things. Yes, cloth and paper masks aren't ideal but they can and do work. Yes, people do need to be better educated but, again, trying to tell people not to wear masks has the exact opposite effect. It is found that even paper and cloth masks, combined with social distancing and washing hands (and other hygiene practices), help slow the spread of the virus.

Yes, it would be nice if we could give everyone N95 masks and teach them individually about proper usage and fit, which would protect the wearer from the virus. Unfortunately, we still don't have enough stock for medical personnel and first responders -- so we can't get everyone to wear one. So, yes, as we've been saying, you wearing a mask isn't to protect you, it is to protect those around you. It is not to be used to replace social distancing but in addition to it; and perhaps if people like you tried to educate on how to use masks properly, rather than complain about how it "doesn't work," more people would be wearing them and wearing them correctly.

 

[SimplyMe]

I recall links in this thread showing you just that -- though I suppose you can't admit that, perhaps not even following the links so you can continue to pretend no one has done that.

 

[LostMarbels]

The mask does its best work in reducing the odds that a person who already has the virus will spread it.

That person should be quarantined. You quarantine the sick, not the healthy.

But he doesn't want to because his head is packed with politically motivated misinformation which he prefers to the truth because it feeds his biases.

Nothing to do with politics good sir. I have worked with SCBA/APR. This is nonsensical. I have worked with chlorine gas when working for the county. You can use a rescue full face APR for that in a pinch, but need to be suited up with SCBA during prolonged exposure. Also, underground enclosed spaces down here tend to gather 'swamp gasses' due to the high water table and decomp of foliage. Depending on what it is, you can get away with a PAPR with the right cartridge. It is a lot more comfortable to breath with a bottle or a fan when you or doing strenuous work than sucking thru a steaming up APR.

But the truth is... you don't pick up a paper mask and go to work in those conditions. Neither do first responders concerning hazmat.

I'm afraid the only answer is the force of law.

There is no authority to do so.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Do you see the scare quotes denoting sarcasm? Hmm?

I was referring to the part not in quotes. No one in this thread has claimed that "a paper mask is the only thing that will protect you."

Not with a N95 or below it isn't. Look it up. N95 only filters an estimated 95% of .3 microns. Covid-19 is .06 to .14 microns. You are not filtering a darn thing. Stupid mask is nothing but a status symbol. Cloth mask? Forget it... won't even catch dust or sand from driving down a dirt road.

And how big are the saliva/mucus droplets that the virus is primarily carried in? As I said, and you agreed, the virus itself isn't airborne.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That person should be quarantined. You quarantine the sick, not the healthy.

Surely you're aware of the fact that people can have COVID-19 and be asymptomatic or have only very mild symptoms that they may not recognize? And that those people are still contagious? Or that the virus is transmissible before symptoms manifest?

It's not possible to quarantine someone if you don't know they're sick.

 

[Speedwell]

That person should be quarantined. You quarantine the sick, not the healthy.

How do you know that they have the virus? they may be asymptomatic.

Nothing to do with politics good sir. I have worked with SCBA/APR. This is nonsensical. I have worked with chlorine gas when working for the county. You can use a rescue full face APR for that in a pinch, but need to be suited up with SCBA during prolonged exposure. Also, underground enclosed spaces down here tend to gather 'swamp gasses' due to the high water table and decomp of foliage. Depending on what it is, you can get away with a PAPR with the right cartridge. It is a lot more comfortable to breath with a bottle or a fan when you or doing strenuous work than sucking thru a steaming up APR.

But the truth is... you don't pick up a paper mask and go to work in those conditions. Neither do first responders concerning hazmat.

If you know all that much about it, why do you keep posting ignorant nonsense?

There is no authority to do so.

Yes, I know--you've got to protect your rats.

 

[LostMarbels]

And how big are the saliva/mucus droplets that the virus is primarily carried in? As I said, and you agreed, the virus itself isn't airborne.

Many times larger than the size of the virus itself. I agree with that point. I get sick of these Karens that are some 20 feet away from me, yelling at me from the other gas pump because I do not have a mask on. It is stupid. Go away. 6 feet... get it in your head.

Or Im behind a glass window. These people...

The whole thing is just nuts.

 

[LostMarbels]

How do you know that they have the virus? they may be asymptomatic.

Am I the only person on this earth that understands 6 feet? Do not touch your face or mouth? Wash your hands/use sanitizer, and respect other peoples space?

I mean how difficult is it?

This is kindergarten simple. Don't eat paste. Don't put foreign objects including your own fingers in your mouth. Don't touch other people. Respect others space.

 

[LostMarbels]

If you know all that much about it, why do you keep posting ignorant nonsense?

What ignorant nonsense?

 

[Rajni]

Rolls eyes.

The bottom line....place the country and world into panic...lock you down...destroy the economy...then allow the New World Order to take over....like your bible says is going to happen.

This may or may not be a precursor to the White Horse in Revelation...perhaps its practice, but it's coming.

I no longer subscribe to the various flavors of Christian eschatology, but if I still did, I very well could see the mask as "mark-practice". Testing the waters of society to see how compliant the majority are. I haven't looked very hard, but it seems to me on the surface that very few Christians here have made that connection (whether or not it's an accurate one). I mean, I'm sure we've got folks here who have no problem viewing something like Harry Potter as a gateway to AntiChrist domination, and yet when it comes to something even more directly obvious like the mask/mark thing.... nothing but the sound of crickets.

Wear the mask ... take the mark ... only one letter difference between the two words! How cool is that?!

But then again, this isn't the first time we've had a pandemic where people were expected to wear masks, and common sense says they would help even if just a little (and even though they're a pain in the aspidistra to wear for hours at a time in a poorly-air-conditioned building thank you very much). Plus, as in like other situations such as the Y2K thing, there will be people pondering dystopian worst-case scenarios, only for everything to return to normal in the end. I'm an expert at doing that myself... unfortunately.

Time will tell, as always.


-

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Many times larger than the size of the virus itself. I agree with that point.

Then why focus on the size of the virus?

I get sick of these Karens that are so 20 feet away from me, yelling at me from the other gas pump because I do not have a mask on. It is stupid. Go away. 6 feet... get it in your head.

Or Im behind a glass window. These people...

The whole thing is just nuts.

I agree, that's kind of stupid. However, I also recognize that people are scared, and people do stupid things when they're scared. If I can make people slightly less scared by doing one simple thing (like wearing a mask), why wouldn't I?

 

[LostMarbels]

This point is ludicrous, the idea that if people don't do something correctly that we should just quit doing it altogether, and even talk about how it won't work, rather than try to educate and improve things.

Well, this is more of a warning than saying it shouldn't be done.

Have you ever actually looked at how many people do not wear a mask correctly? The bridge of their nose, or their nose is outside of the mask. And if you got a beard, or large enough mustache you are breathing through your facial hair.

Then there are the masks themselves. How many days have you been breathing your warm, most breath through that filter? How many germ and bacteria colonies are you rebreathing? How about sweat? If you have a washable mask, what are you washing it in? What chemicals are you inhaling all day from that laundry detergent and fabric softener that smells so good?

How about contaminates and decontamination? Whenever you leave a contaminated area you need to throw away whatever PPE you utilized in that area, wash up, and use new PPE for the next area. Is that being adhered to? If not, you are doing nothing except carrying that contamination with you. And putting it right back on your face in the next area. And then you have people that wear the same gloves, that have everything they have ever came in contact with all day long all over them, going from one place to the next touching things. Brilliant!!

This is a nightmare in the terms of actually spreading a virus.

rather than try to educate and improve things.

Why do you think I said this:

Yes. People are much better off adhering to social distancing, and proper hygiene. People have a false sense of security behind a mask that lets them act in ways they wouldn't if they felt how vulnerable they still were.

Why? Because people actually believe it is the mask that is keeping them healthy. Never mind that they jab their dirty fingers under it the entire time they are in the store. Put their nose out of it. Slide their phone they haven't wiped off in God knows when under it.

If you wear gloves or a mask... it's once and done. If not, all you are doing is contaminating other areas, and rebreathing whatever you felt you filtered from a contaminated area.

This above is bad, even unconstructive advice? I might be way off base if I asserted one should wash their hands every time they take off their gloves or mask.

 

[LostMarbels]

Then why focus on the size of the virus?

Because this mask thing is a hasty thrown together, half-baked cake. Mask, masks, masks, masks..... Not one person is going on a rampage over sanitation, or proper usage of PPE. Nope... it is all about that outward appearance of compliance.

But who is telling people how sick you can get from breathing in your own bacteria, and germs in an overly used, grossly contaminated mask? No one. Just wear that mask. How many people have had that same mask for weeks? They just throw in the center counsel of their car and put it on once they go to a store? What are they breathing in every time they put that petri dish back on their face?

All this push for a mask most people will never even look up how to properly use, or store. You got 8 hours, even if used intermittently by OSHA standards. Wet masks breed microorganisms and bacteria. Sweat, your breath, condensation of a cold mask from an AC building to the humidity outdoors. Plus you breathe whatever you sit that mask down on/in.

I think many people are going to get sick just because they believe 'throw it on and done'.

I agree, that's kind of stupid. However, I also recognize that people are scared, and people do stupid things when they're scared. If I can make people slightly less scared by doing one simple thing (like wearing a mask), why wouldn't I?

Blah.... I do not have to be an idiot just because someone else wants to be.