Where's God?

[Ed1wolf]

Sir, what you listed was good health advice. Once again, what you said was:

do what the experts say to prevent exposure [to COVID].
eat healthy
not engage in unhealthy behaviors like smoking and drug use.
exercise.
not living a life of violence​

We all agree. Following good health practices usually leads to better health.

What we disagree with is your previous claim, "If you live according to God's moral teachings you will probably not ever be in an ICU." [emphasis added]

But it is more than good health advice because it was written 2000 years before humans knew these things were good health advice. This is evidence of their divine origin.

 

[Ed1wolf]

Then God is not the source of justice or spiritual laws? Then what is?

These laws are part of who He is, He cannot go against His own nature.

cwc: So you believe God would let a kid get run over by a bus, causing pain and suffering to the kid and a lifetime of emotional pain for the parents and people that loved the kid?

Yes, if it was necessary to produce a greater good.

cw: This kind of belief seems to think pain and suffering in this world can be a good thing. I believe we should try to minimize pain and suffering for everyone. I can teach my kids to not play in the street without them having to be hit by a car.

No, they are not good things, I never said that. I said God allows them to occur for greater goods. He can bring good out of the evil of suffering both for the sufferer and their family and friends.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

These laws are part of who He is, He cannot go against His own nature.

So God has no power to grow us spiritually in another way other than with pain and suffering. Ok. I bet many other Christians would disagree with you here.

Yes, if it was necessary to produce a greater good.

What could possibly be a greater good for anyone in that situation?

No, they are not good things, I never said that. I said God allows them to occur for greater goods. He can bring good out of the evil of suffering both for the sufferer and their family and friends.

Can he stop a kid from being hit by a bus or a kid getting raped? Why can't he just talk to us and convince us of truth instead of causing us pain and suffering? The bible shows that he can do that.

 

[SPF]

How can a loving God watch what is going on in the ICUs, have the power to intervene, but instead just choose watching and comforting? That does not make sense to me.

Why stop at the ICU? Why does God allow anyone to be in a hospital in the first place? But why stop there? Why does God allow anyone to get hurt or sick in the first place? But why stop there?

It sounds like you're suggesting that God has a moral obligation to keep all living creatures perfectly healthy. Why would God have such a moral obligation?

Your religion seems to be all about "me".

You have it backwards. It's the atheist that always uses the line of argumentation that if God exists He should be making you happy. For the atheist, life is all about yourself, and so if God existed, He should be serving you and keeping you healthy and safe, never suffering.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I didn't say suffering is good, rather God brings good out of the evil of suffering.

Good, we agree that suffering is not good. The man in the OP picture is suffering. If suffering is not good, where is God in that picture?

 

[doubtingmerle]

No, God doesn't WANT suffering, He just knows that sometimes it is necessary for spiritual growth so He lets it happen.

If suffering is necessary, why is it not good?

I don't think suffering is necessary.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Why would he not be able to do that? Christianity in particular posits an afterlife that is actually physical, so you would still have brain function and thus cognitive functions with the Resurrection body.

The problem is, after death, we no longer have a brain. Don't believe me? Dig up a corpse that has been dead for twenty years. You will find no brain capable of human thought.

How could I have brain function without a brain?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Why stop at the ICU? Why does God allow anyone to be in a hospital in the first place? But why stop there? Why does God allow anyone to get hurt or sick in the first place? But why stop there?

It sounds like you're suggesting that God has a moral obligation to keep all living creatures perfectly healthy. Why would God have such a moral obligation?

Two can play that silly game:

Why do doctors stop at the ICU? Why do doctors allow anyone to be in a hospital in the first place? But why stop there? Why do doctors allow anyone to get hurt or sick in the first place? But why stop there?​

It sounds like you're suggesting that doctors have a moral obligation to keep all living creatures perfectly healthy. Why would doctors have such a moral obligation?

Therefore, doctors have no obligation to help in the ICU.

​

See? It's the same silly logic you used.

 

[SPF]

Two can play that silly game:

Why do doctors stop at the ICU? Why do doctors allow anyone to be in a hospital in the first place? But why stop there? Why do doctors allow anyone to get hurt or sick in the first place? But why stop there?​

It sounds like you're suggesting that doctors have a moral obligation to keep all living creatures perfectly healthy. Why would doctors have such a moral obligation?

Therefore, doctors have no obligation to help in the ICU.

​

See? It's the same silly logic you used.

Actually, I was being serious. Doctors don’t have the capacity to keep all living creatures healthy, God actually does.

So again I ask, why do you believe God has a moral obligation to keep all living creatures healthy?

 

[doubtingmerle]

So again I ask, why do you believe God has a moral obligation to keep all living creatures healthy?

i never said he was obligated to keep all creatures healthy.

If God is good and all powerful, and people are suffering needlessly, then he would want to end the suffering, and could do it. But he does not. Why not?

 

[doubtingmerle]

No, they are not good things, I never said that. I said God allows them to occur for greater goods. He can bring good out of the evil of suffering both for the sufferer and their family and friends.

Does God want people to suffer in a way that is not good?

If yes, then how can he be good?

If no, then why doesn't he stop it?

 

[SPF]

i never said he was obligated to keep all creatures healthy.

If God is good and all powerful, and people are suffering needlessly, then he would want to end the suffering, and could do it. But he does not. Why not?

Well that’s easy enough to answer. You’re not an omnipotent, omniscient being, so your view isn’t limited, it’s virtually non-existent.

But if you don’t believe God has a moral obligation to maintain a perfect utopia where He’s serving His creation, then you should be capable of maintaining enough perspective to recognize that an omnipotent, omniscient, Maximally Great Being has reasons you don’t understand.

So again, you should try to be honest with yourself about what you’re asking, what the implications are, and what you think God is obligated to do if He exists. You sound like a lot of atheists who think that if God exists He is obligated to provide you with a perfect life.

 

[Silmarien]

The problem is, after death, we no longer have a brain. Don't believe me? Dig up a corpse that has been dead for twenty years. You will find no brain capable of human thought.

How could I have brain function without a brain?

Do you not understand the concept of the Resurrection of the Body? It's one of the central tenets of Christianity--the afterlife will be physical. That means with a living body. That presumably means with a brain.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Well that’s easy enough to answer. You’re not an omnipotent, omniscient being, so your view isn’t limited, it’s virtually non-existent.

But you didn't answer. You just admitted you don't have an answer as your view is just as limited and non-existent.

 

[SPF]

But you didn't answer. You just admitted you don't have an answer as your view is just as limited and non-existent.

I did answer. It’s not that difficult. If God exists, He is a Maximally Great Being, possessing such attributes as omnipotence and omniscience.

Do you honestly expect that you ought to understand and comprehend the ultimate plan of such a being? You can’t actually be that arrogant.

Does the state of the world cause one to question what sort of plan God has and how it can possibly be ultimately good? I know I sure do.

Do I know why God chooses to heal a tiny minority of people and not the vast majority? I have no clue why, but He’s not morally obligated to heal anyone.

But I believe God exists, and I believe in Scripture. Therefore, I believe that ultimately God will redeem and restore His creation.

 

[Tinker Grey]

But he does not. Why not?

You’re not an omnipotent, omniscient being, so your view isn’t limited, it’s virtually non-existent.

I did answer. It’s not that difficult. If God exists, He is a Maximally Great Being, possessing such attributes as omnipotence and omniscience.

You were asked: "Why not"?
You answered: "We can't know."
Which is simply an admission you don't know or can't know. You've admitted you don't have/can't have an answer.

 

[SPF]

You were asked: "Why not"?
You answered: "We can't know."
Which is simply an admission you don't know or can't know. You've admitted you don't have/can't have an answer.

Well, the answer is that He will, in His timing.

Why is His timing not now? Don’t know.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Well, the answer is that He will, in His timing.

Sometimes his timing has not come. Over 500,000 people have suffered with COVID, only to die from it.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Does the state of the world cause one to question what sort of plan God has and how it can possibly be ultimately good? I know I sure do.

The patient in the OP is suffering from COVID. Do you believe this is ultimately happening for the good? Or is it a tragedy that would be better if stopped?

If God thinks this continual suffering is ultimately for the good, then God disagrees with the doctors that are trying to end the suffering.

If the suffering is not for the good, then a good God would want to stop it.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Do you not understand the concept of the Resurrection of the Body? It's one of the central tenets of Christianity--the afterlife will be physical. That means with a living body. That presumably means with a brain.

Like Trump, who was holding a Bible instead of his Bible, your resurrected person appears to have a brain instead of his brain. For if a person has been dead for centuries, the brain is mush and the particles could be scattered far and wide. Your God might be able to make another brain, but it is difficult to see how the new brain he makes for me would in any way be me.

But we digress. The person in the picture is suffering. It is not good that he is suffering. A good God would want the suffering to stop. A God that can transplant a brain into a corpse and bring it back to life would be able to make the suffering stop.