Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[istodolez]

It's a buzzword....to the uneducated you sound like you know what you're talking about.

What's the "systemic problem"?

Racism.

I don't think you did...I think you're dodging the question because you don't have any answers.

In the upper right hand corner is a small box which reads "Search", within that you are able to search in a specific forum and by a specific user (my user name is "istodolez"). I just ran the search myself and delimited it to the American Politics Forum and searched on the word "solutions" et viola I got a hits from June 25,24, 23, 14, and 9th in which I discuss solutions (specific and general). It was pretty simple.

Would it make you feel better if I told you I read through your posts and found no solutions?

Wow. Are you using Google Translate on the pages or something?[/quote][/quote]

 

[istodolez]

You aren't crazy...it's smelled off to me ever since they attacked people for saying all llves matter.

By saying "All lives matter" is to miss the point entirely. I don't mind explaining this to you (because unless you are illiterate you already have read what the point is): the phrase "black lives matter" is meant to be "If all lives matter then we must accept that BLACK LIVES MATTER too". That's the whole thing.

No one, LITERALLY NO ONE, in the movement thinks other lives don't matter. But in AMERICA we have a history (a very long history, you can read about it if you like) of hundreds of years of brutalizing black people. It appears that to many Americans black lives do not matter.

It views every problem through the lens of racism

I will agree that any movement tends to seek "purity of ideals" which pushes it to be more intolerant of dissent. And I think a lot of people look at the problems of the world and try to frame them in whatever frame their personal "crusade" is. It's very common. It happens on the Right (Trump found a way to hook all of America's problems on Mexicans, now he's moved to hooking all the problems on China, etc.) and it happens on the Left.

....which is extremely ignorant. It doesn't allow for honest discussion or debate. It has no end goal, no real solutions, no real problems other than "racism".

Well, again, if you DON'T READ OR LISTEN then I can see how you would assume that. But one's personal ignorance of the topic is not equivalent to actual lack of information.

Yeah...there's huge problems.

Yeah, there IS a huge problem of racism in this country. It isn't the ONLY problem but it's a big one.

If you are going to interact with Americans on an American Political Forum there are many books worth of American history in regards to race you might like to read! Literally thousands upon thousands. It will give you the frame you need to understand why we are where we are.

 

[Larniavc]

Because it would be ridiculous to expect that the same percentage of each race would make the same choices in life.

Why?

 

[Larniavc]

No the numbers are most likely going to be different.

It would probably follow a standard distribution curve.

 

[rjs330]

So do you think all people who are oppressed and rise up against their oppression are using intimidation to get people to submit to their radical agenda? Did the Revolutionaries in the 18th century here in the US "intimidate" the British into submitting to their radical agenda of not being controlled by the British? Were the slaves in Haiti who lead the most successful slave uprising in history intimidating their masters?

The thing all your sneering and fault-finding about BLM does is simply prove that you wish to align yourself with every single group who FAILED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE. In every case like that the people who felt they had nothing to lose made it very, very bad for the people who wanted to maintain the status quo.

You are free to label BLM whatever you want! No matter how fantastical or fanatical you have to become to generate a new label...that won't change the course of anything. You will see that, in the fullness of time, you will have to listen to what they say one way or another. I suggest listening NOW before they become TOO disaffected.

Or what?! Will they get more intimidating? What will happen if people don't listen?

And what do you mean by listen any way? Does listening mean we have to agree? Does listening mean we can't dissent? Cause that is how it's beginning to look.

Are people slaves now in America? Are there laws written to particularly for the minorities?

Your examples are for slaves or for those under which laws are written specifically for certain people. Those were the Jim Crowe laws. They don't exist anymore nor does slavery.

What you seem to support is a radical leftist Marxist group who wants to end capitalism and the family and the principles on which this country was founded.

 

[LostMarbels]

What you seem to support is a radical leftist Marxist group who wants to end capitalism and the family and the principles on which this country was founded.

Yup, and if you don't capitulate.....

 

[istodolez]

Or what?! Will they get more intimidating? What will happen if people don't listen?

Didn't I answer this yesterday? This time I'll just save my typing and say "read some history".

And what do you mean by listen any way? Does listening mean we have to agree? Does listening mean we can't dissent? Cause that is how it's beginning to look.

Must be some glitch in the matrix because I thought I already addressed these exact points yesterday.

Are people slaves now in America? Are there laws written to particularly for the minorities?

Now we're into some fresh stuff. Slavery is now illegal in the US. THe state of Mississippi finally ratified the 13th Amendment officially abolishing slavery in 2013!

So, yay America! We are finally 100% legal slavery free!

As for laws for minorities, well, yeah, I guess RACISM IS OVER! YAY!

What you seem to support is a radical leftist Marxist group who wants to end capitalism and the family and the principles on which this country was founded.

Oh my! I didn't realize! Now that I see the ninja outfits I can see why we should be scared of BLM. They are coming for our country!!!! We must be EVER VIGILANT! Look out!

It is interesting that you can see all these nefarious evil super-secret plans by super-villains under the guise of the BLM signs but you can't see systemic racism.

Sounds like you are a clear-eyed conservative.

 

[istodolez]

Yup, and if you don't capitulate.....

CLUTCH YOUR PEARLS TIGHTER!

I'd recommend sewing all your jewelry into your corsets so that when you are pulled from your home and taken to house arrest in Ekaterinberg you will have your wealth hidden safely from the forces of evil intent on destroying all you know and love!

You just have to lie low for a bit and this will all pass. Everything will come back to status quo ante bellum.

 

[LostMarbels]

Charlie Brown teacher

 

[istodolez]

Charlie Brown teacher

The metaphor is apt.

 

[LostMarbels]

The metaphor is apt.

No kidding. How many times have I stated we are at the point this has become tribal? Do we not both see the same things in one another?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Racism.

Racism is a viewpoint, an idea, it's not systemic.

In the upper right hand corner is a small box which reads "Search", within that you are able to search in a specific forum and by a specific user (my user name is "istodolez"). I just ran the search myself and delimited it to the American Politics Forum and searched on the word "solutions" et viola I got a hits from June 25,24, 23, 14, and 9th in which I discuss solutions (specific and general). It was pretty simple.

I checked, didn't see solutions....not surprised.

 

[jardiniere]

Didn't I answer this yesterday? This time I'll just save my typing and say "read some history".



Must be some glitch in the matrix because I thought I already addressed these exact points yesterday.



Now we're into some fresh stuff. Slavery is now illegal in the US. THe state of Mississippi finally ratified the 13th Amendment officially abolishing slavery in 2013!

So, yay America! We are finally 100% legal slavery free!(snip)

Compulsory labor without compensation is still allowed in the US. It's modern slavery, and one reason why we have so many more prisoners than any other country. In the entire world.

 

[istodolez]

Racism is a viewpoint, an idea, it's not systemic.

Incorrect. Racism CAN BE systemic if it is part of an overall system.

Here: think about this. We in the US have a justice system (system, see?) and it has build into it a suite of features that helps ensure more young black men are funneled into it through much harsher sentencing and less likelihood of jury trials for black offenders than for whites (even for the exact same type of crimes). Blacks and whites use some drugs like marijuana at roughly equal rates and even sell it at roughly equal rates (obviously I'm talking about places where it is still not legal) yet blacks are far more likely to be get jail time for it.

That is both SYSTEMIC and RACIST.

I checked, didn't see solutions....not surprised.

LOL. That's pretty funny.

 

[istodolez]

No kidding. How many times have I stated we are at the point this has become tribal? Do we not both see the same things in one another?

This is an alarmingly extremist view of "relativism". I still think it's possible to call out evil when it is there. I can't really be that much of a "moral relativist".

 

[LostMarbels]

Here: think about this. We in the US have a justice system (system, see?) and it has build into it a suite of features that helps ensure more young black men are funneled into it through much harsher sentencing and less likelihood of jury trials for black offenders than for whites (even for the exact same type of crimes). Blacks and whites use some drugs like marijuana at roughly equal rates and even sell it at roughly equal rates (obviously I'm talking about places where it is still not legal) yet blacks are far more likely to be get jail time for it.

How do you ever expect to fix it if you refuse to look at what started it all, and who legislated it for what reason?

This quote bellow has a very good clue:

Compulsory labor without compensation is still allowed in the US. It's modern slavery, and one reason why we have so many more prisoners than any other country. In the entire world.

Harsher legislation on former slaves, means more former slaves in chains, and back in the fields as convicts, instead of slaves.

You keep bringing it up but refuse to look.

 

[rjs330]

PSSST: There's a MIDDLE WAY!



Just reading your posts I don't think you do.



I was being metaphorical. Trying to make a larger point. It isn't always just about YOU, you know.

My point is and will remain: if someone is willing to tear down things YOU VALUE because they do not feel like you are listening, the first step is to LISTEN to them.

And remember: these riots didn't just happen...they have been building for year upon year upon year. Century after century. Ignore the chants at your peril.

Are the protestors 100% right about every single thing? Nope. That's never how reality works. But the protestors are saying something that we have to listen to. Once you establish that you are LISTENING IN GOOD FAITH a dialogue can get started. But that dialogue can't be the usual "toss a few sops" and make the immediate problem go away. It needs systemic fixing for systemic problems.

Remember MLK? Yeah, he showed us the route forward. But MLK was mercilessly hounded by the FBI and thrown in jail so many times for the PEACEFUL protests he led. And after 57 years since the "I have a dream speech" we STILL have significant race issues in this country. So do tell how effective peaceful action is in getting white America to the table to address the problems.

Thank you for continuing to prove what we are saying. You belittle our concerns then reinforce them.

Ignore the chants at our peril? Yeah we hear the chants, no justice no peace, pigs in a blanket fry wm like bacon, we see the violence, we see the burning buildings, we see the destruction. No the left is coming through loud and clear.

Marxist leftist revolution. Bow to the revolution. Give money to a black man, ask forgiveness for your whiteness, admit your racism. Embrace the revolution or be silenced one way or another.

 

[istodolez]

How do you ever expect to fix it if you refuse to look at what started it all, and who legislated it for what reason?

Read "The New Jim Crow" by Michele Alexander.

It's a good read and robust academic analysis of how Slavery morphed into Jim Crow morphed into mass incarceration.

 

[LostMarbels]

Read "The New Jim Crow" by Michele Alexander.

It's a good read and robust academic analysis of how Slavery morphed into Jim Crow morphed into mass incarceration.

People are so desperate to blame Trump for their own parties mishaps, they actually get in the way of the ones addressing the issues.

 

[istodolez]

Thank you for continuing to prove what we are saying.

Does this tactic pass for "clever" in your space? It's kinda tired and old.

Ignore the chants at our peril? Yeah we hear the chants, no justice no peace, pigs in a blanket fry wm like bacon, we see the violence, we see the burning buildings, we see the destruction. No the left is coming through loud and clear.

And you'll be surprised to find that most of us on the Left are MORTIFIED by those chants. They are truly scary!

Marxist leftist revolution. Bow to the revolution. Give money to a black man, ask forgiveness for your whiteness, admit your racism. Embrace the revolution or be silenced one way or another.

Hey, you're Pentacostal right? OK, let me try this using Christianity as one of the best examples I can think of. One of the things I actually kinda love about my former faith of Christianity is the concept of "Grace". The whole basis of Christian soteriology (especially in the Protestant world) is that we are ALL fallen and fall far short of the perfection of God's wishes. And our salvation comes from admitting we are in need of salvation and accepting God's Grace through the savior. We cannot "earn" it, we cannot "work toward salvation", we must rely on God's grace to grant it.

Racial justice is a similar concept (here's right about where your blood pressure skyrockets and you revert to complaining about an atheist talking about religion, but do bear with me...like I said that is one of the keys to Christianity that I actually LIKE). We in white society have enjoyed benefits from a system that has long been set up to benefit us. So even if you and I don't do ANYTHING overtly racist, we don't hate minorities, we still enjoy benefits we were born with. In a sense this is our "original sin"... the sin we didn't PERSONALLY commit but which we are born with.

America has come a LONG WAY to improve our racial treatments but we have a long way to go. CLEARLY the numbers show this. But more importantly the man is lying in the road having been beaten up by attackers...we are called to be the Good Samaritan and help him, not try to figure out if his pain is "real" enough for us.