Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[Lost4words]

Free speach, is only acceptable to those that support and follow BLM by the looks of things!

 

[Aldebaran]

Free speach, is only acceptable to those that support and follow BLM by the looks of things!

Free speech that doesn't go along with their narrative is labeled as "hate speech". By doing that, they show they don't respect everyone having the right to free speech. Equal rights only apply equally to one side.

 

[istodolez]

Would getting down on my knees before them do the trick?

PSSST: There's a MIDDLE WAY!

Let me guess, "NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!"
Yeah, I hear what they're saying loud and clear.

Just reading your posts I don't think you do.

Those are the words you're trying to put in my mouth. They aren't the words I said.

I was being metaphorical. Trying to make a larger point. It isn't always just about YOU, you know.

My point is and will remain: if someone is willing to tear down things YOU VALUE because they do not feel like you are listening, the first step is to LISTEN to them.

And remember: these riots didn't just happen...they have been building for year upon year upon year. Century after century. Ignore the chants at your peril.

Are the protestors 100% right about every single thing? Nope. That's never how reality works. But the protestors are saying something that we have to listen to. Once you establish that you are LISTENING IN GOOD FAITH a dialogue can get started. But that dialogue can't be the usual "toss a few sops" and make the immediate problem go away. It needs systemic fixing for systemic problems.

Remember MLK? Yeah, he showed us the route forward. But MLK was mercilessly hounded by the FBI and thrown in jail so many times for the PEACEFUL protests he led. And after 57 years since the "I have a dream speech" we STILL have significant race issues in this country. So do tell how effective peaceful action is in getting white America to the table to address the problems.

 

[istodolez]

Free speach, is only acceptable to those that support and follow BLM by the looks of things!

Oh puhleeeze.

 

[Aldebaran]

My point is and will remain: if someone is willing to tear down things YOU VALUE because they do not feel like you are listening, the first step is to LISTEN to them.

I thought the first step was to call them a racist.
I guess that only works for one side.

And remember: these riots didn't just happen...they have been building for year upon year upon year. Century after century. Ignore the chants at your peril.

Is that a threat?

Remember MLK? Yeah, he showed us the route forward. But MLK was mercilessly hounded by the FBI and thrown in jail so many times for the PEACEFUL protests he led. And after 57 years since the "I have a dream speech" we STILL have significant race issues in this country. So do tell how effective peaceful action is in getting white America to the table to address the problems.

Sounds like it's time to tear down MLK's statue since he clearly is deemed to have gotten it wrong. Call it a hate crime all you want.

 

[istodolez]

Oh my! Killing someone because their animals grazed on public lands!

You don't seem to know much about the Bundy Standoff in Nevada.

OK, in 2014 CLIVEN BUNDY let his cattle graze on public lands IN NEVADA without permission (this is called "theft"). He and his people got into an ARMED STANDOFF WITH FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. TO my knowledge NO ONE IN THE BUNDY CLAN WAS KILLED.

In 2016 Cliven's son, AMMON BUNDY (see the difference there?) took over and occupied the Malheur National Forest IN OREGON (Again, look at a map of the USA...make sure to look at one that is labeled so you know that Oregon =/= Nevada) along with his band of right wing extremists to make some point about public lands being turned over to private groups. THIS IS NOT THE STANDOFF IN NEVADA. Sure it was part and parcel of Bundy's silly overall points, but the people in Oregon DIDN'T REALLY WANT BUNDY TO COME CARPET BAGGING IN AND STIR UP THIS TROUBLE.

NOW, Bundy and his cohorts were allowed by police to come and go from the refuge while they maintained control (occupied) but clearly the standoff wasn't going to change. The authorities used one of the Bundy excursions to a neighboring county to try to take the leadership into custody. Bundy did not resist arrest and was taken in peacefully by the police. Finnicum kept driving and when he finally did pull over he, himself, DID resist arrest going so far as to "taunt" the police and make known his intention to resist arrest. Which he then did, driving away at high speed. Further down the road there was a roadblock which Finnicum appears to have attempted to go around (granted the police did shoot at his vehicle as he approached the roadblock). Finnicum was not hit by the shots and exited his vehicle and started to walk away. When approached by police he made a move that police interpretted to be reaching for his gun...a gun which Finnicum DID HAVE on him.

Sure, it would be good if Finnicum had NOT been shot by police and no doubt some police action may have been a bit aggressive. But honestly I don't see the comparison here to George Floyd or any of the vast number of similar cases.

As it stands now: Cliven Bundy is still alive and quite fine. From what I read he may also still be stealing from those of us who pay taxes by grazing on public lands without permit. His son, Ammon, is also still quite alive.

The only person who was gunned down was gunned down after he took over a public area and attempted to resist arrest going so far as possibly reaching for a gun.


So, again, you should learn more about the topics before you try to speak authoritatively about them.

 

[istodolez]

Is that a threat?

It is the same advice I would have given King George III, Tsar Nicholas II, or King Louis XVI, etc.

Sounds like it's time to tear down MLK's statue since he clearly is deemed to have gotten it wrong.

He didn't get it wrong. Not by a long shot. MLK got it 1000000000% right. It's us who got it wrong. We didn't listen to MLK.

Call it a hate crime all you want.

May I ask what your malfunction is?

 

[Aldebaran]

He didn't get it wrong. Not by a long shot. MLK got it 1000000000% right. It's us who got it wrong. We didn't listen to MLK.

I agree with that. The black advocacy groups are still judging their own by their skin color rather than their character.

May I ask what your malfunction is?

No. That is classified information.

 

[Lost4words]

Oh puhleeeze.

Truth hurts for you then.

God bless you

 

[rjs330]

As I noted earlier we do not know ALL of the variables (you never do in any given statistical model). AND the fact that we can explain differences (positive or negative) based solely on "race" means there IS a systemic racial difference.

But there are other variables. (Here's some nice summary of what some of those may be). So there may very well be a cultural difference or difference based on some other aspect.

But that brings us back to the IMPORTANT question in this thread: what is it about the black community that results in a statistically lower median income than whites?

(Remember, all I set out to do in this portion of the thread is show that there IS a difference and what it's primary explanatory variable is as of the state of our knowledge).

You know that's the question we've been asking for some time now. But too often all the answer we get is "racism" or "systemic racism" Which you have also given as the answer.

Now you seem to be altering your stance. Which is okay. All of us should be willing to alter our stances as ideas and facts are presented to us.

 

[rjs330]

So do you think all people who are oppressed and rise up against their oppression are using intimidation to get people to submit to their radical agenda? Did the Revolutionaries in the 18th century here in the US "intimidate" the British into submitting to their radical agenda of not being controlled by the British? Were the slaves in Haiti who lead the most successful slave uprising in history intimidating their masters?

The thing all your sneering and fault-finding about BLM does is simply prove that you wish to align yourself with every single group who FAILED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE. In every case like that the people who felt they had nothing to lose made it very, very bad for the people who wanted to maintain the status quo.

You are free to label BLM whatever you want! No matter how fantastical or fanatical you have to become to generate a new label...that won't change the course of anything. You will see that, in the fullness of time, you will have to listen to what they say one way or another. I suggest listening NOW before they become TOO disaffected.

Or what?! Will they get more intimidating? What will happen if people don't listen?

And what do you mean by listen any way? Does listening mean we have to agree? Does listening mean we can't dissent? Cause that is how it's beginning to look.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And remember: these riots didn't just happen...they have been building for year upon year upon year. Century after century. Ignore the chants at your peril.

Are the protestors 100% right about every single thing? Nope. That's never how reality works. But the protestors are saying something that we have to listen to. Once you establish that you are LISTENING IN GOOD FAITH a dialogue can get started. But that dialogue can't be the usual "toss a few sops" and make the immediate problem go away. It needs systemic fixing for systemic problems.

Enough with the nonsense buzzwords...what in the world is "systemic fixing"?

Give real suggestions and real solutions.

If someone is rioting over a problem they have no clue how to fix, they're just someone's useful idiot.

 

[istodolez]

Enough with the nonsense buzzwords...what in the world is "systemic fixing"?

Oh, sorry, I forget that not everyone has english as first language.

A system is "...a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done; an organized scheme or method." Meaning that when something follows a system (let's say, social structure here) it is systemic in nature. So when you FIX a systemic issue (something that is going wrong within an organized scheme or method) you do a "systemic fix".

Give real suggestions and real solutions.

I have already. MANY MANY TIMES on this forum. You can look up posts by my tag. Feel free.

If someone is rioting over a problem they have no clue how to fix, they're just someone's useful idiot.

Actually they have a pretty good idea of what they think would fix many of these issues. We've been told for centuries.

 

[istodolez]

Or what?! Will they get more intimidating? What will happen if people don't listen?

I don't know what the ultimate end is. What if it keeps going and gets worse than LA '92 or the ones that came before? Right now the innercity and urban areas were the ones getting burned...but what if it becomes white-predominant areas?

And what do you mean by listen any way?

What a strange question.

Does listening mean we have to agree?

Not necessarily, but listening must start from a position of honest engagement.

Does listening mean we can't dissent? Cause that is how it's beginning to look.

Well, let's not forget America's history (I shouldn't say "forget" in your case, perhaps we should LEARN American history)...it's not like we white people in the majority have a good track record on treating black people very well. (HINT: I'm not talking about you personally, but this is a topic that it is important that you understand...you have gained benefit from this system which has been set up and supported by people doing some very unpleasant things to black people for a very long time.)

So much of historical change comes from rebellion. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes it goes very, very wrong.

You don't need to agree with them. But you do need to seriously listen.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh, sorry, I forget that not everyone has english as first language.

A system is "...a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done; an organized scheme or method." Meaning that when something follows a system (let's say, social structure here) it is systemic in nature. So when you FIX a systemic issue (something that is going wrong within an organized scheme or method) you do a "systemic fix".

Which means nothing in practical terms.

I have already. MANY MANY TIMES on this forum. You can look up posts by my tag. Feel free.

I'm not going to go digging through your posts in hopes you actually answered my question.

You said it a bunch of times? It shouldn't be so hard to say again.

Actually they have a pretty good idea of what they think would fix many of these issues. We've been told for centuries.

No idea what you're referring to.

 

[istodolez]

Which means nothing in practical terms.

Seriously? It actually is pretty straight forward. Well, for one who has at least a nodding acquaintance with the english language.

(You do realize these really aren't "buzzwords", these are legitimate english words being used as they were originally intended and applied to standard concepts. There is literally NOTHING new or noteworthy about "systemic" or fixing a systemic issue.

I'm not going to go digging through your posts in hopes you actually answered my question.

Like I said, I already answered it. So that's your issue.

You said it a bunch of times? It shouldn't be so hard to say again.

But that presupposes I thought it was worth my time to bother just for you?

No idea what you're referring to.

I'm saying that many black people know exactly what they want to see changed and how it should be changed.

 

[Radagast]

Or what?! Will they get more intimidating? What will happen if people don't listen?

And what do you mean by listen any way? Does listening mean we have to agree? Does listening mean we can't dissent? Cause that is how it's beginning to look.

That's exactly what's going on.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Seriously? It actually is pretty straight forward. Well, for one who has at least a nodding acquaintance with the english language.

(You do realize these really aren't "buzzwords", these are legitimate english words being used as they were originally intended and applied to standard concepts. There is literally NOTHING new or noteworthy about "systemic" or fixing a systemic issue.

It's a buzzword....to the uneducated you sound like you know what you're talking about.

What's the "systemic problem"?

Like I said, I already answered it. So that's your issue.

I don't think you did...I think you're dodging the question because you don't have any answers.

Would it make you feel better if I told you I read through your posts and found no solutions?

I'm saying that many black people know exactly what they want to see changed and how it should be changed.

Which is?

 

[MehGuy]

Please be respectful in this thread regardless of the opinions of others! Thank you!

I don't know about you, but for me, something about the Black Lives Matter movement just seems a little... off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it doesn't seem right, and it's deeply unsettling to me that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to declare that they stand with BLM.

I don't know, seems like a leaderless movement. Personally most of the people into BLM are people I don't want to associate with, lol. Maybe there are a few BLM people I can jive with, but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable marching with them as a whole.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Please be respectful in this thread regardless of the opinions of others! Thank you!

I don't know about you, but for me, something about the Black Lives Matter movement just seems a little... off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it doesn't seem right, and it's deeply unsettling to me that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to declare that they stand with BLM.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with believing that "black lives matter" because, in actuality, they DO matter! Everyone's life matters, and I think that it's okay that we're focusing on black lives mattering too right now... BUT, at the same time, I think there's something very wrong going on when there are "white" people apologizing for being white, police officers being targeted with awful slogans that say that they're ALL terrible people, and people are using the name of BLM to violently riot in the streets.

But I think one of the things that unsettles me the most is the fact that just about every single company and celebrity, even overseas, have said that they are standing with BLM. Something about that tips me off as very blatant "virtue-signaling" and like they're using this to profit off of us. Maybe this last point has more to do with the companies and not the BLM movement itself, but it still makes me thing something really "not right" is going on here. In other words, I'm highly skeptical of everyone and everything right now.

Is it just me? Am I crazy in thinking that something might not be so right about the BLM movement?? Someone please let me know.

You aren't crazy...it's smelled off to me ever since they attacked people for saying all llves matter.

It's become cult like....it's got its own viewpoint, which followers have to adhere to or they risk being outed and removed as racists. It views every problem through the lens of racism....which is extremely ignorant. It doesn't allow for honest discussion or debate. It has no end goal, no real solutions, no real problems other than "racism".

It blames people who aren't supporting it...painting them as the evil "other"....which is extremely cult like.

Yeah...there's huge problems.