Ask God for Me

[Clizby WampusCat]

Sorry. THE FOUNDATION that saves is different from the little foundations that are nothing in comparison to THAT FOUNDATION.

But one would have to understand that first.

No, one would have to demonstrate that is true first.

 

[miknik5]

That is not what all Christians believe. The church of Christ Christians will have their own interpretation of scripture showing how baptism is essential.

No.

 

[miknik5]

No, one would have to demonstrate that is true first.

No. That is not true. That is not written in THE WORD of GOD and therefore does not have to be demonstrated at all...

You are correct that water baptism is written in the word of GOD, but demonstrating that the FOUNDATION is true first, by providing man with some sort of physical and visible evidence first, so that he might believe...no, this is not true...

 

[miknik5]

John understood that he needed to be baptized by JESUS...that he was simply a forerunner and a herald to the one who was coming after him who would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT and fire...

John understood that...

And JESUS said, let it be done now so as to fulfill all righteousness...

But it is JESUS who truly baptizes us....

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

WE are sinful, perfection is sinless and we are not sinless. Sin has to be covered prior to being with God. God has to judge against injustice and sin and no one would make the grade. Now we can go down the road of what ifs or why nots but the fact remains that people can not go to heaven being laden with sin. Justice is what you are calling His conditions. All sins need to be brought to justice. People who kill, rape and abuse are punished in our own human system. God sees all sin in terms of Justice. Did you lie to someone, then the person you lied to needs justice. Did you commit adultery, then your spouse needs justice. Did you have an abortion, then the child aborted needs justice. All sin requires justice.

No, all wrongdoing requires justice. And appropriate justice. No one who lies deserves to be tortured. Justice that does not fit the crime is injustice. This is why the concept of sin is much more than just moral wrongdoing, it is a crime against god that deserves death and torture. It is inhumane. If my spouse commits adultery I do not want her killed or tortured.

You have a way to not be tortured in hell forever, do you think it is God's fault if you claim He isn't worthy of worship and that you will not repent?

Yes. Is it a battered wifes fault that she is beaten becasue she won't do what her husband wants?

I don't know about other Christians but for me, I have like I said been on here for over twenty years and I haven't more than a few times warned of hell to people. I've spent endless hours in intellectual discussions and now there just isn't time to play around. Things are setting up very quickly for the time when the tribulation will be here and you and others, who feel there isn't enough evidence or you feel God isn't worthy to worship will face great troubles and will have to go through very perilous times. It is warning time, there is no time to forgo the warnings and partake in intellectual mind games. If that is a threat, then so be it, God doesn't fool around. He has waited patiently for all who would come to Him to make a place in Heaven and afterward, the new earth and heavens for an eternity. So yes, as I see what is quickly coming I want you and everyone that will to join God for an eternity of a world without sin and evil rather than eternal damnation. If that doesn't sound like what you want to hear, I guess that is just he way it is. I'd rather warn you, than know that I should have and didn't.

People have been predicting this for 2000 years. Why should I believe you now?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No. That is not true. That is not written in THE WORD of GOD and therefore does not have to be demonstrated at all...

We are probably done here. If you don't want evidence for your beliefs then there is little I can learn from you.

You are correct that water baptism is written in the word of GOD, but demonstrating that the FOUNDATION is true first, by providing man with some sort of physical and visible evidence first, so that he might believe...no, this is not true...

yeah, evidence is bad. Faith is good.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

John understood that he needed to be baptized by JESUS...that he was simply a forerunner and a herald to the one who was coming after him who would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT and fire...

John understood that...

And JESUS said, let it be done now so as to fulfill all righteousness...

But it is JESUS who truly baptizes us....

Whatever, have fun believing whatever you want without evidence.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So if I ask you to go get me a red apple and you come back with a green apple do you think that you followed my request? No, you did not. This says believe and be baptized by God right? So if you just believe without baptism have you followed Gods command?

It doesn't say if you are not baptized you will be condemned. If you had to be it would say...if you do not believe or are not baptized you will be condemned.

Yes, it actually says those words.

Sorry, that is correct. I was hurrying and should have previewed my post. It however doesn't claim that you have to wash them away in baptism, I mean it surely can be taken that way; but when the major passages of scripture do not claim that water baptism is the way to salvation but the baptism of Christ is, I will go with the abundance of scripture.

This is so ambiguous it can be interpreted either way. Why is this so unclear? Why is it left up to interpretation?

Because you can't determine one passage without studying the whole Bible.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No, all wrongdoing requires justice. And appropriate justice. No one who lies deserves to be tortured. Justice that does not fit the crime is injustice. This is why the concept of sin is much more than just moral wrongdoing, it is a crime against god that deserves death and torture. It is inhumane. If my spouse commits adultery I do not want her killed or tortured.

Let me ask you this, if you find yourself in the tribulation and all the death and horrible evil running amuck, would you turn to God? Would you suddenly decide to worship God? Or do you feel that God is unfair, a monster that doesn't deserve to be worshiped?

Yes. Is it a battered wifes fault that she is beaten becasue she won't do what her husband wants?

Not the same category. God has total authority of His creation. God has given his plan, if you don't want to follow it, He won't make you. That is up to you. If you think it is unfair, that is up to you but you will get what you want...not worshipping God.

People have been predicting this for 2000 years. Why should I believe you now?

Was Israel back into her country after 2,000 years prior to 1948 after their dispersal? Was there a way to see the two witnesses all around the world prior to world wide television? Was there technology that would allow for all people in the world to have to take a mark or not be able to buy or sell? There are unions taking place that are described in the Bible. The generation that sees Israel back as a nation shall not die before the end comes. Not to mention the birth pangs talked about are coming closer and closer.

knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

4“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.”…

 

[miknik5]

Whatever, have fun believing whatever you want without evidence.

If that is how you want to interpret my testimony...you are right...we are done here.

I, had to receive the evidence...I had to get a hit over the head conversion sir...because if I hadn´t, I probably would have continued on with believing that I had a relationship with GOD apart from THE SON...and I would have probably continued on thinking where and how does JESUS fit in my relationship with GOD.

But, GOD, when HE chose to reveal THE TRUTH, did so, that I could NOT deny the TRUTH...because sir, I did receive the evidence...

So I will continue in the faith...but it wasn´t based on no evidence...

And this does not make me better...in fact, it makes me worse than those who have believed without having to feel by their lower carnal senses anything...

Blessed are those who have not seen and believe...

I had to see, and I had to feel, and I had to have a hit over the head revelation of the TRUTH...in order for me to turn and be healed....

And I did...and I know what I know...and I know what I learned...
And what I know and learned was not from a man...but from GOD.

 

[Kylie]

You do realize that it is supported by historical sources outside of the Bible that Jesus exited. So your analogy is incorrect.

I haven't seen anything that particularly convincing. In any case, I'm talking about the belief in Jesus as a God, not just a regular person.

 

[Kylie]

Jesus's existence is not the same as some believing you went to one shop or others another shop. Jesus's existence is supported by outside sources.

And there's no evidence at all to support the idea that I've ever gone to the shops?

 

[Kylie]

Your going to the shops has nothing to do with a FOUNDATION that is the necessity to anyone´s salvation

It will have no affect on any of the subjects in your story...yourself, or those who believed you went here or there....

Iḿ sorry, Kylie...I am at a loss that you do not see the difference between your analogy and salvation to those who are able to distinguish that THE FOUNDATION is all that is needed...

These shops sell different merchandise. Their foundation, though you see it as an outer shell to the merchandise, sell different things.

The CHURCH has ONE IMPORTANT ELEMENT to man´s salvation...and it is THE NECESSARY TREASURE amongst the little trinkets and other material elements at the hands of men....and it isn´t the outer shell of the church that we are concerned about, or the dogma...it is THAT TREASURE that alone is THE FOUNDATION that holds THE BODY (not a physical structure)

Find THAT and that is all that is needed...

Of course, it's not required for anyone's salvation unless it's true. You're assuming that it's required for salvation so you can conclude it's true, so you can justify your belief that it's required for salvation, etc...

It's rather circular. When your premise is built on your conclusion, you've got nothing.

 

[Tinker Grey]

It's rather circular. When your premise is built on your conclusion, you've got nothing.

But it can't be circular! It's a foundation and foundations are square.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I haven't seen anything that particularly convincing. In any case, I'm talking about the belief in Jesus as a God, not just a regular person.

Do you think that after His crucifixion great numbers of Christians would have come about over a dead so called God?

 

[Oncedeceived]

And there's no evidence at all to support the idea that I've ever gone to the shops?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

.....................I see we're all still going on about this stuff ................................ ?

Please, Lord, deliver us!

 

[Kylie]

But it can't be circular! It's a foundation and foundations are square.

 

[Kylie]

Do you think that after His crucifixion great numbers of Christians would have come about over a dead so called God?

That's assuming the stories that are told about him are true. Prove he was crucified and then resurrected and we'll talk.

 

[Tinker Grey]

But No True Foundation ...