LDS Mormon Teachings About Hell

[He is the way]

We have been over your literal interpretation versus the actual figurative definitions of "Father" before and you have not convinced me

You got anything new that I can actually search through the
Bible for?

You ignore what the Bible actually states in favor of man's interpretation.

 

[Jamesone5]

You ignore what the Bible actually states in favor of man's interpretation.

And you ignore the context on what it is really saying in your prophet's interpretation. He was a man, right?

 

[He is the way]

And you ignore the context on what it is really saying in your prophet's interpretation. He was a man, right?

The context of those scriptures is contrary to the way people try to twist it to accommodate their own beliefs.

 

[Jamesone5]

The context of those scriptures is contrary to the way people try to twist it to accommodate their own beliefs.

Are you talking about yourself when you say you twist it to accommodate your beliefs?

Seem like you have given in to your conscience before.

Give me a challenge instead of the same tired, worn out arguments.

 

[Peter1000]

We have been over your literal interpretation versus the actual figurative definitions of "Father" before and you have not convinced me

You got anything new that I can actually search through the
Bible for?

Literal vs actual figurative, that would be interesting how you would actually create a figurative Father of these verses and wiggle out of the correct conclusion that Jesus wanted you to get from his prayer. Good Luck.

 

[Jamesone5]

Literal vs actual figurative, that would be interesting how you would actually create a figurative Father of these verses and wiggle out of the correct conclusion that Jesus wanted you to get from his prayer. Good Luck.

Same way you conclude if this verse is literal [which obviously it is not]


John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

We want as our Father, the father of lies?

 

[He is the way]

Are you talking about yourself when you say you twist it to accommodate your beliefs?

Seem like you have given in to your conscience before.

Give me a challenge instead of the same tired, worn out arguments.

(New Testament | Matthew 4:4)

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

 

[Peter1000]

Same way you conclude if this verse is literal [which obviously it is not]


John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Ok, are you saying that the Trinity is figurative, or is it literally 1 God made up of 3 distinct Personages?

Jesus was praying a real prayer to his Father. And he asked the Father to help those that believed in the words of his apostles that they could be one, as they (God and Jesus) are one.

The question is, what does that oneness look like? If God and Jesus are one God, then to be one like them, the people would have to be one person also. What does that look like. and if Jesus were talking figuratively, what is the proper interpretation of his saying? Please tell me your interpretation. What would the oneness of his people look like?[/QUOTE]

 

[dzheremi]

Trying to talk to Mormons about theology is like trying to talk to blind people about colors.

 

[He is the way]

Hell is a temporary (although it may seem like an eternity) place of punishment for the wicked.

 

[Jamesone5]

Ok, are you saying that the Trinity is figurative, or is it literally 1 God made up of 3 distinct Personages?

Jesus was praying a real prayer to his Father. And he asked the Father to help those that believed in the words of his apostles that they could be one, as they (God and Jesus) are one.

The question is, what does that oneness look like? If God and Jesus are one God, then to be one like them, the people would have to be one person also. What does that look like. and if Jesus were talking figuratively, what is the proper interpretation of his saying? Please tell me your interpretation. What would the oneness of his people look like?

Ok, are you saying that the Trinity is figurative, or is it literally 1 God made up of 3 distinct Personages?----Peter1000

By Jove--- you finally got it.

Or at least in the last part of your question.​

Now, the focus was on "father" as to whether it is figurative or literal.

Once again

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Is this literal or figurative?

Because after all, the devil would have to literally father these Pharisees, according to the Mormon construct of "father". And this was the same Christ who said God is My Father to Mary.

As to trying to answer your further questions----you Believe or have Faith in one God in three personages, they will answer themselves. But here is one I have an answer for.

The question is, what does that oneness look like? If God and Jesus are one God, then to be one like them, the people would have to be one person also. What does that look like. ---Peter1000

Hebrews 11:1
By Faith We Understand
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We cannot see what we have Faith in. So, "what would it look like?"--- [as you suggest] is a false expectation.

 

[Peter1000]

Ok, are you saying that the Trinity is figurative, or is it literally 1 God made up of 3 distinct Personages?----Peter1000

By Jove--- you finally got it.

Or at least in the last part of your question.​

Now, the focus was on "father" as to whether it is figurative or literal.

Once again

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Is this literal or figurative?

Because after all, the devil would have to literally father these Pharisees, according to the Mormon construct of "father". And this was the same Christ who said God is My Father to Mary.

As to trying to answer your further questions----you Believe or have Faith in one God in three personages, they will answer themselves. But here is one I have an answer for.

The question is, what does that oneness look like? If God and Jesus are one God, then to be one like them, the people would have to be one person also. What does that look like. ---Peter1000

Hebrews 11:1
By Faith We Understand
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We cannot see what we have Faith in. So, "what would it look like?"--- [as you suggest] is a false expectation.

So you are saying that the statement: "your father the devil" is figurative. Of course it is figurative, because we know very well that the devil did not father a single soul. He is the leader of the evil and sometimes we "figuratively" call the leader, "father".

Do you think that is the same as Jesus telling Mary that he is going to "my Father" and "your Father" and "my God", and "your God"? If you think the word "Father" in this case is figurative like the "father" in John 8:44, then you are not reading the bible correctly.

The word "father" in John 8:44 is purely figurative. The word "Father" in John 20:17 is not, it is literal, and if you cannot see that, I cannot straighten this out for you.

 

[Peter1000]

Trying to talk to Mormons about theology is like trying to talk to blind people about colors.

I could say the exact thing about you. The truth is, we believe our theology as much as you believe yours. It is as simple as that.

Tell me again, how you and I can be one, like God and Jesus are one?

 

[Jamesone5]

So you are saying that the statement: "your father the devil" is figurative. Of course it is figurative, because we know very well that the devil did not father a single soul. He is the leader of the evil and sometimes we "figuratively" call the leader, "father".

Do you think that is the same as Jesus telling Mary that he is going to "my Father" and "your Father" and "my God", and "your God"? If you think the word "Father" in this case is figurative like the "father" in John 8:44, then you are not reading the bible correctly.

The word "father" in John 8:44 is purely figurative. The word "Father" in John 20:17 is not, it is literal, and if you cannot see that, I cannot straighten this out for you.

You seem to be trying to tell Christ what He meant in whatever verse comes up to fit your Mormon narrative.

John 17:11
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.


Is Christ's reference here to His Father or the Holy Father, literal or figurative?

And, how about this verse:

John 10:30
I and My Father are one.”

And here is a Commentary on John 20:17

John 20 Geneva Study Bible

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
{4} Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my {d} brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto {e} my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(4) Christ, who is risen, is not to be sought in this world according to the flesh, but in heaven by faith where he has gone before us.

(d) By his brethren he means his disciples, for in the following verse it is said that Mary told his disciples.

(e) He calls God his Father because he is naturally his Father in the Godhead, and he says your Father because he is our Father by grace through the adoption of the sons of God: that is, by taking us by his free grace to be his sons; Epiphanius.


"In the Godhead" is not a typical father/son relationship like we have when we father our sons. And Mary is a daughter by Grace or though adoption as a son[daughter] of God.

 

[dzheremi]

I could say the exact thing about you. The truth is, we believe our theology as much as you believe yours. It is as simple as that.

The difference being that our theology is taught by God Himself; your theology is taught by Joseph Smith, who could not keep straight what he was supposedly told by 'God' throughout his life (evidenced in the several different 'first vision' stories, the evolution of his theology from Trinitarianism to polytheistic henotheism as shown in comparing the first edition of the BOM to later ones, etc). The Holy Spirit teaches one thing, not whatever the person supposedly receiving would accept.

Tell me again, how you and I can be one, like God and Jesus are one?

Look to any one of the approximately 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times you've already had traditional Trinitarian Christian theology explained to you. I do not have the energy to make it 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 right now. At some point it becomes a matter of you being unwilling to accept that what you are told is the Christian position because your religion disagrees with it, which is immaterial, and not the fault of any Christian or a defect in the position.

 

[He is the way]

The difference being that our theology is taught by God Himself; your theology is taught by Joseph Smith, who could not keep straight what he was supposedly told by 'God' throughout his life (evidenced in the several different 'first vision' stories, the evolution of his theology from Trinitarianism to polytheistic henotheism as shown in comparing the first edition of the BOM to later ones, etc). The Holy Spirit teaches one thing, not whatever the person supposedly receiving would accept.



Look to any one of the approximately 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times you've already had traditional Trinitarian Christian theology explained to you. I do not have the energy to make it 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 right now. At some point it becomes a matter of you being unwilling to accept that what you are told is the Christian position because your religion disagrees with it, which is immaterial, and not the fault of any Christian or a defect in the position.

If your theology were from God it would agree with the Bible, but it doesn't.

 

[dzheremi]

If your theology were from God it would agree with the Bible, but it doesn't.

Christians, not Mormons, wrote, preached, and canonized the Bible in the first place. I think it is entirely within our rights to say what does and does not agree with it, your favored 19th century neo-Muhammadean pedophile polygamist prophet notwithstanding (since everything you impotently wail against as being 'apostasy' was well set before Joseph 'At Least 33 Wives' Smith was ever so much as a glimmer in his daddy's eye).

Why don't you stick to your own books -- the BOM, the D&C, and the PoGP -- and leave ours alone? Is it because you know you have nothing of an actual revelation of God in them, so you need to attach yourselves to Christianity, like bloodsucking, disease-spreading parasites?

 

[He is the way]

Christians, not Mormons, wrote, preached, and canonized the Bible in the first place. I think it is entirely within our rights to say what does and does not agree with it, your favored 19th century neo-Muhammadean pedophile polygamist prophet notwithstanding (since everything you impotently wail against as being 'apostasy' was well set before Joseph 'At Least 33 Wives' Smith was ever so much as a glimmer in his daddy's eye).

Why don't you stick to your own books -- the BOM, the D&C, and the PoGP -- and leave ours alone? Is it because you know you have nothing of an actual revelation of God in them, so you need to attach yourselves to Christianity, like bloodsucking, disease-spreading parasites?

Everyone needs to determine for themselves what is true and what is not true. I have determine for myself that the Oriental Orthodox does not agree with teachings Jesus taught us the Bible. As you may already know, I believe that keeping the commandment is of utmost importance. Keeping the commandments is stressed throughout the entire Bible. Jesus told us how He and the Father are one. Babies do not need to be baptized. The Book of Mormon is indeed another testament of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was NOT a neo-Muhammadean pedophile as you describe him to be. If you don't agree with polygamy get rid of every mention of Abraham, Jacob, David, etc. because they don't belong in your Bible.

 

[Rescued One]

(New Testament | Matthew 4:4)

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Mormons follow and preach the words of false prophets who preach the words of Joseph Smith. Those are not words from God.

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons follow and preach the words of false prophets who preach the words of Joseph Smith. Those are not words from God.

JS saw Jesus Christ, he learned from Jesus Christ, he preached and taught all of us what Jesus told him. Everything JS did was what Jesus told him to do. Christ was the center of his life. Jesus even told him to restore the practice of polygamy to the earth again to bring the population in the church up quickly to thwart satan in his attempts to stop the church from moving forward. It worked. Jesus told Wilford Woodruff in 1896 to end polygamy and we did.

All things were done by revelation from Jesus Christ.