Does God Need Your Permission in Order to Save You?

[BibleBeliever1611]

Sounds like a really navel-gazing question.

 

[Chris0699]

No, at least I hope not. Because I'll never be saved if He doesn't save me without my permission.

 

[corinth77777]

No, at least I hope not. Because I'll never be saved if He doesn't save me without my permission.

So a person has no choice...God just saves them...end of story

 

[Chris0699]

So a person has no choice...God just saves them...end of story

This read, although long, does a lot to explain what is going on when someone comes to Christ, it's by Charles Spurgeon

Human Inability

 

[Chris0699]

And I say this because I know I am not right with God. I hope He takes an interest in me sometime before I die.

 

[venksta]

No.

Would you wait for permission, to save someone you saw drowning in a body of water? God knows we need to be saved. He acted first out of love.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And I say this because I know I am not right with God. I hope He takes an interest in me sometime before I die.

God already has taken an interest in you. First, He revealed His divine power and attributes through creation to you.

Romans 1-
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

For this reason, you should be glorifying God and being thankful to Him.

Second, He sent His Son to earth to die for all your sins, taking your judgment upon Himself. Why did His Son do this? Out of love. And to remove the sin barrier between you and God. This reconciles you to God.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Now, given all that, none of this saves anyone. Salvation is by grace (you CAN'T earn or deserve it) through faith. That means you have to trust your soul to Christ who died for you to save you.

Ephesians 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Does good soil choose to germinate the seed of the word of God?

Permission is about hardness of heart. Jesus implied we are as are, some ready for the seed and some as hard as iron, while other shallow and without the possibility of true maturity.

So permission is involved in a kind of way, but I think this is actually before the word is heart, whether the ground is open or closed.

I have preached to good soil, seen the gospel be planted and bear fruit. And these folk wanted to hear more, they were hungry for what God had to offer.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Does good soil choose to germinate the seed of the word of God?

Not relavent.

Permission is about hardness of heart. Jesus implied we are as are, some ready for the seed and some as hard as iron, while other shallow and without the possibility of true maturity.

Then permission has already been granted. Another word for it is choice.

I have preached to good soil, seen the gospel be planted and bear fruit. And these folk wanted to hear more, they were hungry for what God had to offer.

I think it should be obvious that those who want to hear more and show an interest have already given permission.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Not relavent.


Then permission has already been granted. Another word for it is choice.


I think it should be obvious that those who want to hear more and show an interest have already given permission.

When you plant a seed in the ground, does the ground choose to respond, give permission or just receives the seed and the seed grows?

Jesus implies some soil is just not deep enough, some too hard, some gets overwhelmed by the worries of this world. What is the solution?

The idea of giving permission is a strange idea. How can one permit something one does not know or understand? Jesus implies as we listen and learn we begin to understand, but are already involved.

Jesus also said this,

11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:11-12

The devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts. So the loss of the word of God is not even their own.

Some who hear and rejoice, in testing fall away.
Others get swamped by the worlds worries and are unfruitful.

Now the object of the whole exercise is to produce a crop, without which everything is pointless.
Permission does not seem to be part of this, but once established there is a choice of going back to the world or continuing on in Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

When you plant a seed in the ground, does the ground choose to respond, give permission or just receives the seed and the seed grows?

Sure, literally. But Jesus wasn't speaking literally. He was using a parable to make a point.

Jesus implies some soil is just not deep enough, some too hard, some gets overwhelmed by the worries of this world. What is the solution?

All human beings have a choice; to either believe the Word of God or not.

The idea of giving permission is a strange idea.

I agree.

How can one permit something one does not know or understand?

What is your "solution"?

Jesus implies as we listen and learn we begin to understand, but are already involved.

Yes.

Jesus also said this,

11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:11-12

The devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts. So the loss of the word of God is not even their own.

I think you are stretching the parable beyond the limits of parables. The point of the first soil is that Satan "snatches away" the Word through deceit, so instead of believing the Word of God, they believe something false.

Some who hear and rejoice, in testing fall away.
Others get swamped by the worlds worries and are unfruitful.

Do you believe either of the 2nd or 3rd soil represents saved people?

Now the object of the whole exercise is to produce a crop, without which everything is pointless.
Permission does not seem to be part of this, but once established there is a choice of going back to the world or continuing on in Christ.

Review the 4th soil. Permission sure was "part of this".

Luke 8:15 - But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

It should be obvious that hearing, retaining and persevering all imply a permission.

In any classroom, only those students who listen will learn. That is clearly a permission. A permission to accept facts. To listen is just that.

And you have my permission to reject this. But then you'd have to prove my statement to be wrong.

 

[Behold]

It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

God requires Faith.
He requires you to believe something before He will save you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

jimmyjimmy said: ↑
It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

God requires Faith.
He requires you to believe something before He will save you.

Good answer! Another way to answer is that God requires trust in Him. And that removes any argument that God requires works.

There is no work involved in trusting. It's an attitude, not an action.

 

[Behold]

jimmyjimmy said: ↑
It's a simple question, which requires a simple, Yes or No, answer.

Good answer! Another way to answer is that God requires trust in Him. And that removes any argument that God requires works.

There is no work involved in trusting. It's an attitude, not an action.

Trust is an inner working of the heart.
"Faith".

 

[LightLoveHope]

Does God need our permission to save us?

This is not actually a single question. You need to state what is the process of being saved, and what is the role of God and the believer along the way.

To be saved you must be receptive. Being receptive is not a salvation issue, specific to salvation but to everything. Some have a closed mind, anything new beyond a certain point or from certain sources is shut down. So a general prerequisite is to be open to ideas propositions.

The next prerequisite is when information is received to be willing to follow the conclusions where they lead. The next prerequisite is to accept the picture God paints of the sinner and their need, and finally of the solution. The next prerequisite is acceptance of this and actually repenting and changing things. The goal is then to walk with Jesus and learn as a lost changed sinner, to walk in the ways of God.

Along the way each step requires acceptance and co-operation by the sinner. It is this active participation that brings about the result. Permission is a passive response, you can do x, as if this is the whole picture, or even a valuable part. Scripture is full of assessments of where people are in life, the path to death and the path with God. This is a real proposal which requires an answer and actions. Nineveh was you will be destroyed, unless you repent. They repented.

In easy believism where God does everything and the believer is passive, permission becomes meaningful. Without permission, you have universalism or fatalism. It is also why this question does not have an answer in the classic christian theological model. God bless you

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"There is no work involved in trusting. It's an attitude, not an action."

Trust is an inner working of the heart.
"Faith".

What do you mean by "inner working of the heart"?

 

[Behold]

I said:
"There is no work involved in trusting. It's an attitude, not an action."

What do you mean by "inner working of the heart"?

God sees your thoughts.
He knows the intent of your motives.

WE look at people, and we see what they DO... and we judge that...and that can be a false judgment.
God, sees WHY you do what you do.....God looks inside you and sees your "intent", and your "motive".
You are familiar with the Judgement (bema) seat of Christ? Where believers will give account to Jesus regarding all they did in 'his BODY"..... And how will you be judged for all your works you did for Christ your entire LIFE?
Jesus will look at everything you ever did for Him, your entire Christian life, and He will actually be able to SEE the MOTIVE, regarding WHY you did every work you ever did, for Christ.
For example..
Im here working....Im all over this Forum now in the last few days....Im posting, im Threading, im teaching.......and so, what is my MOTIVE?.....as what im doing is helpful, and can be life changing for some readers who have ears to hear, but, WHY am i doing it, is what GOD SEES.
He is looking INTO ME....and assessing.....>"is "behold" doing this for me, or is "behold" doing this for ATTENTION and self gratification".
And God is also looking into YOUR HEART, all of you, who are reading this....and He's aware of why you are here, and why you are doing what you are doing.
HE SEES YOU !! INSIDE. WHERE YOU LIVE.

So, the "inner working of the heart" is the INTENT and MOTIVE for all your works and effort and deeds.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"There is no work involved in trusting. It's an attitude, not an action."

What do you mean by "inner working of the heart"?

God sees your thoughts.
He knows the intent of your motives.

This doesn't address your statement.

WE look at people, and we see what they DO... and we judge that...and that can be a false judgment.
God, sees WHY you do what you do.....God looks inside you and sees your "intent", and your "motive".
You are familiar with the Judgement (bema) seat of Christ? Where believers will give account to Jesus regarding all they did in 'his BODY"..... And how will you be judged for all your works you did for Christ your entire LIFE?
Jesus will look at everything you ever did for Him, your entire Christian life, and He will actually be able to SEE the MOTIVE, regarding WHY you did every work you ever did, for Christ.
For example..
Im here working....Im all over this Forum now in the last few days....Im posting, im Threading, im teaching.......and so, what is my MOTIVE?.....as what im doing is helpful, and can be life changing for some readers who have ears to hear, but, WHY am i doing it, is what GOD SEES.
He is looking INTO ME....and assessing.....>"is "behold" doing this for me, or is "behold" doing this for ATTENTION and self gratification".
And God is also looking into YOUR HEART, all of you, who are reading this....and He's aware of why you are here, and why you are doing what you are doing.
HE SEES YOU !! INSIDE. WHERE YOU LIVE.

And neither does any of this.

So, the "inner working of the heart" is the INTENT and MOTIVE for all your works and effort and deeds.

And none of this involves work, or effort.

In fact, you have supported my comment, that faith is an attitude.

 

[Behold]

In fact, you have supported my comment, that faith is an attitude.

I would say that what i wrote, is quite clear.
So, ...
Faith is not an attitude.
An attitude is an emotion, its a mood, its a feeling.
God does not save you based on a feeling, or a mood, or an emotion.
Have you ever met anyone with an "attitude problem" who needs an "attitude adjustment"?

Faith is Trust.
Trust in not an attitude. Its instead a place in the heart where the heart Believes.
The mind considers, and the heart trusts.
If someone breaks your heart, did they break your attitude, FreeGrace2?
Have you ever had your attitude broken? How about your heart? Ever had that broken?
See it?
God sees faith IN your heart, and HE accepts this, and responds by giving us "the gift of Righteousness".

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"In fact, you have supported my comment, that faith is an attitude."

I would say that what i wrote, is quite clear.
So, ...
Faith is not an attitude.

Yes, you did. You said this:
"So, the "inner working of the heart" is the INTENT and MOTIVE for all your works and effort and deeds."

Intent and motive are NOT works, effort, and deeds. Intent and motive creates an attitude. So, thanks again.

An attitude is an emotion, its a mood, its a feeling.

It's way more than that.

God does not save you based on a feeling, or a mood, or an emotion.

Absolutely not. I agree.

Have you ever met anyone with an "attitude problem" who needs an "attitude adjustment"?

Sure have. What's the point?

Faith is Trust.

Exactly.

Trust in not an attitude. Its instead a place in the heart where the heart Believes.

Excuse me. It IS an attitude. Trust is an attitude toward something or someone. And not an emtion.

If you don't trust someone, you certainly have an attitude toward that person, whether you're willing to admit it or not.

The mind considers, and the heart trusts.

Do a word search of both words in the Bible. They speak of the same thing.

If someone breaks your heart, did they break your attitude, FreeGrace2?

Sure. Are you arguing that your attitude toward that person doesn't change after they break your heart???

Have you ever had your attitude broken? How about your heart? Ever had that broken?

I've changed attitudes towards a number of things. But my heart? No.

See it?

I'm afraid you don't. You keep supporting my view, but you don't see it.

God sees faith IN your heart, and HE accepts this, and responds by giving us "the gift of Righteousness".

Yes. So, what does this have to do with the issue at hand?

I said that trusting is an attitude, which you disagree, but when on to support my statement.

If you were cheated by someone who you trusted as a friend, are you going to say that your attitude toward that person didn't change after being cheated on??