Ask God for Me

[Clizby WampusCat]

Ok. I don't get your point then?

My point is that this event fits into evolution. It has explanations and is not the only "explosion" that happened.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Again, your observation can only go back as far as what is given you to study...species ¨change/evolve" more so that they can adapt to an ever changing environment which has an affect on all living matter

They don't evolve to fit the environment, the species that do not fit the environment die off.

And yet we believe that we evolved from the apes and that we share a common ancestry with them.

We are apes, we did not evolve from them. We have a common ancestor with other apes.

No. I did not say they were moving to a better state....rather, I said the opposite....

That is also not true.

Again, there is no starting point for any of the living matter....science can only study what is before them and they can only go back as far as what is before them.

They can never go back to the original starting point..

Even if evolution is untrue that does not give evidence for a god.

 

[Oncedeceived]

My point is that this event fits into evolution. It has explanations and is not the only "explosion" that happened.

It was never claimed that it didn't 'fit' into evolution.

 

[miknik5]

They don't evolve to fit the environment, the species that do not fit the environment die off.

We are apes, we did not evolve from them. We have a common ancestor with other apes.

That is also not true.

Even if evolution is untrue that does not give evidence for a

god.

I think we are misunderstanding one another...

Yes, they do change BECAUSE of the environment..natural selection/survival of the species, sir is a more sophisticated way of saying what I said in laymanś terms...living things change/evolve to fit the ever changing environment.and yes, the species that can not adapt, do die off...

No, we are not apes...yes, there are similar material found in our DNA that seems to say that we evolved from apes ...but it isn´t because we evolved from them...(again, evolve to me is simply change)...


Yes, it is true...the environment is moving towards wear and tear... the environment from the beginning was pure and untouched...therefore, over time, the environment, (the common variable), has changed for the worse...and its effects certainly do affect all living things....

 

[miknik5]

My point is that this event fits into evolution. It has explanations and is not the only "explosion" that happened.

How does it ¨fit¨?

How does an explosion ever explain scattered particles joining together to result in living matter..

And not only one living being per species...but two, itself and its counterpart.

How can any explosion explain this?

 

[miknik5]

Forgive my simplicity but it does NOT make sense.

 

[Kylie]

That is nearly as simplistic as your comment about being a mother makes reproduction a 'thing'. It doesn't explain anything about the information needed to take Molecule A, Molecule B and then molecule C gaining information to form anything resembling a simple cell.



Only if you don't care about reality.

Amino acids do not contain genetic information.

No, it doesn't. See above.



Bizarre.

You seem like a kid who's constantly asking, "Why?" You demand that I answer everything, despite the fact that I'm not an expert on this topic, and yet if I can't explain it, my position must be wrong. Google is available. Please feel free to do your own research on this and get your information from the people who are far better qualified than me to teach you about it. Of course, if there is nothing that will change your mind, then you have no interest in learning and there's no point in having a discussion with you about this.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Forgive my simplicity but it does NOT make sense.

Well it does not make sense because you don’t know how evolution works. I honestly started to think you were trolling me. If not, I would suggest you you go read books or websites where biologists explain evolution and give the evidence to support it. Stay away from apologist arguments against it until you find out how evolution works and how we know it is true.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

How does it ¨fit¨?

How does an explosion ever explain scattered particles joining together to result in living matter..

And not only one living being per species...but two, itself and its counterpart.

How can any explosion explain this?

It doesn’t.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I think we are misunderstanding one another...

Yes, they do change BECAUSE of the environment..natural selection/survival of the species, sir is a more sophisticated way of saying what I said in laymanś terms...living things change/evolve to fit the ever changing environment.and yes, the species that can not adapt, do die off...

No, we are not apes...yes, there are similar material found in our DNA that seems to say that we evolved from apes ...but it isn´t because we evolved from them...(again, evolve to me is simply change)...


Yes, it is true...the environment is moving towards wear and tear... the environment from the beginning was pure and untouched...therefore, over time, the environment, (the common variable), has changed for the worse...and its effects certainly do affect all living things....

Refer to my comment on 1028.

 

[cvanwey]

How does it ¨fit¨?

How does an explosion ever explain scattered particles joining together to result in living matter..

And not only one living being per species...but two, itself and its counterpart.

How can any explosion explain this?

If all this was explained in a way you would understand and accept, could it change your position?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If all this was explained in a way you would understand and accept, could it change your position?

I don’t think she is here to understand evolution or change her mind. She is here to try to change my mind.

 

[coffee4u]

I disagree. Once a creator makes a thinking conscious being torturing them is immoral.

Why do you believe this?

God isn't torturing anyone. He wants all to be saved and made a way for them to be saved.
He gave rules because he knows what people like to do can have dire consequences either to health, emotional or spiritual well being.

First I don;t think of us as "just evolved animals". We have thoughts, feelings, dreams etc. that matter in our lives and in other peoples lives.

Well you're the one who believes in evolution. If there is no God and everything just made itself then yes humans are animals. In this system what people think and feel should be uppermost, even if it is diametrically opposed to you because why should you have any more say than anybody else?
In reality, of course, it is always numbers, power and strength that gets heard. Victors write history books, governments bring down laws and if enough people gather with the same thought they can sway those in power. The native community in the US has thoughts, feelings and dreams that get swept under the rug because they don't have the numbers. The black community do too but they get more airtime because they have more numbers.

I believe God created us in his image and gave us both spirit and soul that sets us apart from all the animals.

Second, if God does not exist then how would you determine morals?

But God does exist and he does set the morals whether you follow them or not. Then as his creation, we are going to be held accountable to him.

If God does not exist as you seem to feel then you are back to mankind being just an animal that arrived through chance random processes. Even if you are a thinking animal then every viewpoint should count. However, man likes to be the boss and always has done so mankind struggles to be 'in power' for his or her view to be the one that counts above everybody else's. which is why Adam and Eve, when presented with the opinion to 'be like God' took it greedily. Because at heart people are selfish and most of what they do is selfish. Sure people can think altruistically from time to time especially if the group as a whole pushes them in one direction (heard mentality) but ultimately man is more focused on himself.

Morals are trustworthy if they are demonstrated to be trustworthy. The good thing about secular morality is that it does change so we can get a better morality. We no longer kill homosexuals or jail them we have accepted them into our society (at least on a rights basis) because secular people pushed for it, not religious. Religious dogma cannot change so religious people cannot change moral system for the better.

You think the people in 1920 didn't think the same way? They thought they were doing the right and moral thing. Man can't see past his nose, he sees what he wants, reaches and grabs. Like a baby doesn't know that a stove is hot man has no idea of the deeper emotional, physical and spiritual danger he puts himself into. Mankind does not have all the pieces of the jigsaw only God does. Those laws were put in place for serious reasons, just because you can't see them does not mean they don't exist. So when God says something is sinful I acknowledge that it must be whether I personally understand it or not. This is part of trusting in God.

Do you think basing a morality around the greatest well being of all involved is a good goal?

But what is the greater wellbeing? Someone happiness for a short time? Just because something looks and feels good to the human eye does not mean at its very depth doesn't lay danger. A danger that we cannot fathom. People seem to assume they are so smart. Mankind has probably only scratched the surface of what there is to know. God knows it all. God is seen as a father because like a father stops his child running onto the road even when the child cries and makes a fuss, God is guiding us like that.

Did you read about the farmer who chopped of his own leg to escape some type of machinery? If he had not been able to do that he would not be alive today. This is similar to why God made those laws. They seem drastic but were for the overall good of the society. He even says in the New Testament, better to lose a hand than your soul. Now you realize those laws were to people thousands of years ago? Basic barbarians. This isn't the law now and hasn't been for the past two thousand years so it's a bit useless to continually focus on them when you know they are not what we are called to do. You do that because you are trying to show that God is in the wrong- God is the creator he is never in the wrong. They were right for that time period.

I think I have demonstrated that gods morals do not increase the well being of mankind. It certainly is not good for slaves, women or non Christians.

That is because you are not seeing the entire picture because you and I and everyone else cannot see the entire picture. We see one piece but not the tiger hiding in the grass ahead.
God says Love your neighbour as yourself. This is the main command of God right now to his people towards people.

How do you know he does?

We already had this conversation. Read back. I have seen and felt God's guiding hand in my life many times.

I don't claim god does not exist, I am only saying there is not enough evidence to believe that he does.

God says that creation is enough physical evidence.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

You cannot hate the sin and love the sinner because what God deems as a sin is part of who they are. When you say to a homosexual I hate your sin but love you, you are saying I hate a part of who you are. They cannot change who they are.

That is what we are called to do through the Holy Spirit. This is what God does. He does separate them. The same way you might love your son but hate that he is taking crack.
I didn't say it was an easy thing to do, but that is what Christians are called to do.

I agree that our beliefs are shaped by these things. (I disagree that we are just evolved animals). This is why reason is needed to determine morals. Gods morals are not absolute either because they are whatever he decides they are. I can have an objective morality without a god. My goal of morality is well being. What that means is another discussion but If that is my goal I can objectively evaluate my actions based on that goal. This is the same ting you do with the bible. You can objectively evaluate your actions based on your interpretation of what the bible says.

Take a look through history and see how mankinds views have changed. Don't think because you live now in this society that it will always continue to think this way either.

God's is unchanging and his morals are unchanging.
He knows everything which is why he can set them.

You have a form of morality because of God. He says he placed it upon our hearts.
Mankind tends to not always show love in the correct way. The parent giving sweets (candy) to their child continually in love is leading them down the road of tooth decay. Not because they don't love them but because they are short-sighted to the long term consequences.

Where doe s it say in the bible that heterosexual sin should be reason for killing them. What is the good that comes from commanding the killing of people who perform homosexual acts?

Like you I am human I can't see the bigger picture only God can. Part of being a Christian is trusting in God's judgment even if I don't understand. Some reason for laws against sexual sins come to mind
Disease, pregnancy, abortion, deeper heartbreak, emotional and spiritual issues, anger, jealousy, marriage breakdown, addiction.

One case was the women caught in adultery. Under the old law she could be killed. Jesus said 'He who is without sin may cast the first stone" he was talking specifically of sexual sins here. It says they left from the eldest down to the youngest. He then said to her that he forgave her of her sin and also said "Go sin no more" So he didn't say"You're forgiven go do whatever makes you happy" No he said "Go sin no more' he was both loving but also just.

Then do you support homosexual marriage in our society? Do you support the normalization of homosexuality in our society be taught in our schools?

God says that marriage -at least marriage in his eyes- is only one man to one woman. That is what marriage was and is. Marriage under the state can be whatever the state chooses it to be but God does not view it as marriage.
Since I know God only made rules for the ultimate good of peoples emotional, physical and spiritual wellbeing no I don't support it because ultimately in some way it will hurt the very people it says it is supporting.[/quote]

 

[cvanwey]

I don’t think she is here to understand evolution or change her mind. She is here to try to change my mind.

Fingers crossed

 

[miknik5]

Well it does not make sense because you don’t know how evolution works. I honestly started to think you were trolling me. If not, I would suggest you you go read books or websites where biologists explain evolution and give the evidence to support it. Stay away from apologist arguments against it until you find out how evolution works and how we know it is true.

Nope... I am not in the least interested...I have the starting point and I know that all creation is moving away from that initial (and perfect) state towards corruption and decay

... and therefore not to a better ¨evolved¨ state....

 

[miknik5]

If all this was explained in a way you would understand and accept, could it change your position?

Are you kidding me...you have no idea what I have gone through therefore I can NOT change my stance...

In a WAY...that I can understand it...

Sir, I may speak in simple terms, but I am FAR from ignorant...

 

[miknik5]

I don’t think she is here to understand evolution or change her mind. She is here to try to change my mind.

Was that originally what we were here for on this thread?

 

[miknik5]

In fact sir, from your original post, it seemed that you were hoping that someone COULD...change your mind...

 

[miknik5]

If all this was explained in a way you would understand and accept, could it change your position?

Furthermore, what is MY position?

 

[Kylie]

Are you kidding me...you have no idea what I have gone through therefore I can NOT change my stance...

In a WAY...that I can understand it...

Sir, I may speak in simple terms, but I am FAR from ignorant...

Do you have any qualifications in any field related to evolution? Biology, genetics, etc?