Ask God for Me

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes...I agree...

Yet you just did this.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well each person gets to decide what convinces them. Some say they are convinced by philosophical arguments. In the end I am currently not convinced by the evidence I have.

Your unwillingness to engage in an actual discussion over a real ethical situation is why we cannot make progress. You also place a lot of ideas and word in my mouth that I never said such as I have an absolute position that cannot be rocked. I never said this. I have explained how I get to my moral beliefs many times.

I am not very inclined to learn morality from someone where their morality allows for people to be killed for homosexual acts, which yours does.

It does? Now you're being disingenuous, buddy! And I don't appreciate it one DAMNED BIT! NOT ONE! You want to play the 'You're OH SO MORAL card'?! Don't play it on me, or I will definitely take you to task for it! Don't underestimate that!

So, back off!

And while you're at it, tell Osiris I said Hello and Good-bye!

 

[miknik5]

Yet you just did this.

And so did you

 

[miknik5]

Silly...

Without actually thinking about, with a clear head ,the theory science has given us on how the earth and living creatures began...yet, had we thought it through...how silly the explanation is...

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It does? Now you're being disingenuous, buddy! And I don't appreciate it one DAMNED BIT! NOT ONE! You want to play the 'You're OH SO MORAL card'?! Don't play it on me, or I will definitely take you to task for it! Don't underestimate that!

So, back off!

And while you're at it, tell Osiris I said Hello and Good-bye!

You said it here:

Ask God for Me

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You said it here:

Ask God for Me

And what is it that you THINK I said, exactly?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

And so did you

Nope I have not. I have repeatedly said I am unconvinced by the evidence, I have never just written off gods existence as silly or creation by a god as silly.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Silly...

Without actually thinking about, with a clear head ,the theory science has given us on how the earth and living creatures began...yet, had we thought it through...how silly the explanation is...

Science has no explanation as to how life began or the ultimate beginning of the universe. They just have some hypotheses. We do know how life evolved and how the universe expanded shortly after it was started.

 

[miknik5]

Nope I have not. I have repeatedly said I am unconvinced by the evidence, I have never just written off gods existence as silly or creation by a god as silly.

Why? Why are you unconvinced? Can you explain the original beginnings of a populated earth?

And yet, since you seem to be searching, the theory science has provided you does not satisfy you.

If it did, you would never have responded with Ï don´t know¨ when I asked you where and how did the original living creature/being come from?

 

[miknik5]

Science has no explanation as to how life began or the ultimate beginning of the universe. They just have some hypotheses. We do know how life evolved and how the universe expanded shortly after it was started.

I know...they are theories...hypotheses..do they satisfy you?

Of course you can know about ¨ëvolution¨..you are basing it on given matter over a period of time...and its.....changes....

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

And what is it that you THINK I said, exactly?

This was my post:

I have never claimed my morals are absolute. Since no one can substantiate theirs are absolute either we need to use reason and logic. Even if your God exists and he decides what is moral does not mean I need to follow them if I find them immoral. If your morals allow for the killing of people just because they do homosexual acts then your morals are flawed even if you are a god if the objective is well being.


Your avoidance of my question to you has been noted,

Do you think it is ever moral to kill someone for being a homosexual?

This was your response:

Yes. Just like it's moral for God to kill any sinner for being a sinner ... including ME!

...God, if He be the The Holy Creator, has the right and the authority to raise and to throw down, to give life and to take it away from His Creation. And somehow, and without absolute authority, you have determined subjectively that this isn't so, and it seems you've come to the conclusion that you have authority to castigate those of us who think God is in His moral right to judge and dispense either mercy or wrath as He deems He needs to do.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why? Why are you unconvinced? Can you explain the original beginnings of a populated earth?

And yet, since you seem to be searching, the theory science has provided you does not satisfy you.

If it did, you would never have responded with Ï don´t know¨ when I asked you where and how did the original living creature/being come from?

???? There is no scientific explanation as to how life began. No one knows. What theory are you talking about?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I know...they are theories...hypotheses..do they satisfy you?

The big bang theory and evolution theory do satisfy me. But these do not talk about ultimate origins.

Of course you can know about ¨ëvolution¨..you are basing it on given matter over a period of time...and its.....changes....

So you think evolution is true?

 

[miknik5]

???? There is no scientific explanation as to how life began. No one knows. What theory are you talking about?

The big bang theory and evolution theory do satisfy me. But these do not talk about ultimate origins.
They should....there is a starting point...
So you think evolution is true?

I think change is true...evolving from an earlier to a later state...but not that one species miraculously changes into another species...
We, can not procreate with other species...some lower species can...but man can not...and doesn´t...and won´t bring forth a viable being...

Evolution is just change, and adapting to an effected/fallen environment ...both the living creature and its environment effect and are affected...

Thatś all it is...
It isn´t that we are moving from a lower state to a better improved state..

Rather, it´s the opposite


If you had the original and initial state of the creature, you might understand this

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This was my post:


This was your response:

And so you think that SOMEHOW what I said in that previous post means that I'd be "ok" if a homosexual person were to be put to death today? Surely you don't think this.

Morality and ethics is concerned with the moral qualities of what we ACTUALLY DO, today. The problem here for YOU is that your own ethical and moral view isn't founded upon anything really substantial. Of course, it's nice to see atheists who don't think they can just Will to Power whatever moral notions they like themselves and instead value social morality that comports with peace and compassion and love and understanding and some human and civic rights (especially if they can do it with integrity and don't just front it as a smoke screen for something they might REALLY want to pander out to society ... like the little quaint item below that supposedly carries with it something of a set of moral qualities... as rumor has it.)

​

Of course, in a Ghost Rider kind of fashion, one might say I'm not quite 'down' with that sort of thing!

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I think change is true...evolving from an earlier to a later state...but not that one species miraculously changes into another species...

No miracle is necessary to change species. We have observed this in nature in our lifetimes through evolution.

We, can not procreate with other species...some lower species can...but man can not...and doesn´t...and won´t bring forth a viable being...

No species can procreate with other species. This is the biological definition of species from lexico.com:

BIOLOGY
a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g. Homo sapiens.

Evolution is just change, and adapting to an effected/fallen environment ...both the living creature and its environment effect and are affected...

No, this is not how evolution works.

Thatś all it is...
It isn´t that we are moving from a lower state to a better improved state..

There is no better or improved goal in evolution. No living creature is moving toward a better state.

Rather, it´s the opposite


If you had the original and initial state of the creature, you might understand this

We do have fossils of creatures that are ancestors of others.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Here is the link:
Does the Cambrian Explosion pose a challenge to evolution? - Common-questions

Here is another that is useful:
CC300: Cambrian Explosion

Ok. I don't get your point then?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

And so you think that SOMEHOW what I said in that previous post means that I'd be "ok" if a homosexual person were to be put to death today? Surely you don't think this.

I did not say this. I asked if it is ever moral.

Morality and ethics is concerned with the moral qualities of what we ACTUALLY DO, today.

But you do think it was moral when the bible commanded it then?

The problem here for YOU is that your own ethical and moral view isn't founded upon anything really substantial. Of course, it's nice to see atheists who don't think they can just Will to Power whatever moral notions they like themselves and instead value social morality that comports with peace and compassion and love and understanding and some human and civic rights (especially if they can do it with integrity and don't just front it as a smoke screen for something they might REALLY want to pander out to society ... like the little quaint item below that supposedly carries with it something of a set of moral qualities... as rumor has it.)

View attachment 277369

​

Of course, in a Ghost Rider kind of fashion, one might say I'm not quite 'down' with that sort of thing!

How was it moral for God at one time to command people to be put to death for committing homosexual acts?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I did not say this. I asked if it is ever moral.

But you do think it was moral when the bible commanded it then?

Sure. Why wouldn't it be? Isn't it like Jeremy Bentham said, natural rights are "nonsense on stilts?"

How was it moral for God at one time to command people to be put to death for committing homosexual acts?

Why don't you just go for the jugular and ask whether or not it was moral for God to command the Israelites to wipe out whole cities of Canaanites due to their sinful escapades and Uber-Bohemian ways of making culture and living life?

I mean, I guess one could just look at homosexuals all alone as but one demographic set within society without bringing into our overall analysis of sin an account of hetro-sexual adulterers who outnumber homosexual philanderers probably 100 to 1 and wonder why they, or seemingly innocent people (....one can never play around enough with that one word y'know, "innocent"), were commanded to be put to death by God in the Old Testament.

Ever notice that we don't really see recorded any specific homosexuals being put to death in the Bible, but we see scads and scads of accounts where seemingly typically sinful hetrosexual people falling left and right. Now, I've often wondered why that is?

Anyway, it's always moral for an omniscient and holy God to put to death one of his human creations for not obeying and retaining an open heart to His leading. Besides, it's not like He's not going to judge us ALL----and I mean ALL------in the future anyway. According to the Bible, we're all going to get what's coming to us one way or another any how, whether we're homosexual or hetrosexual.

 

[miknik5]

No miracle is necessary to change species. We have observed this in nature in our lifetimes through evolution.

Again, your observation can only go back as far as what is given you to study...species ¨change/evolve" more so that they can adapt to an ever changing environment which has an affect on all living matter

No species can procreate with other species. This is the biological definition of species from lexico.com:
BIOLOGY
a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g. Homo sapiens.

And yet we believe that we evolved from the apes and that we share a common ancestry with them.

No, this is not how evolution works.

There is no better or improved goal in evolution. No living creature is moving toward a better state.

No. I did not say they were moving to a better state....rather, I said the opposite....

We do have fossils of creatures that are ancestors of others.

Again, there is no starting point for any of the living matter....science can only study what is before them and they can only go back as far as what is before them.

They can never go back to the original starting point..