Ask God for Me

[miknik5]

Where did I say this. I actually indicated the opposite when I said I know what Muslims say to convince others their god is real.

In answer to post 742

When you prayed for your daughter, sir..you prayed to some one who heard you...

Thatś when you indicated, (even for that very moment) that you believed in GOD.

 

[miknik5]

Evolution explains and confirms how this can happen naturally. If you disagree then take it up with the biologists.

It still takes the beginning cell to begin this process of ¨evolution¨ which is only a moving away from, but not a moving to a perfected (physical) state...

Natural selection along the way, helps to prolong the species, but the members of that species wears down...deteriorates...and dies...

 

[miknik5]

I disagree. I was a Christian for 18 years, studied the bible and apologists arguments, learned to read Greek etc. I lived as a christian for most of that time. Prayed and had experiences that I considered supernatural. How long have you studied evolution?

Why then from post #742, and @Oncedeceived remark to you did you say that you weren´t

 

[miknik5]

Not quite. It is not that I am saying the supernatural no longer exists, it is that I cannot demonstrate that it does to warrant a belief.

Also, I do have a sister and that relationship is different than that of a god. I can have a long conversation with my sister, I can demonstrate that she exists, I can hug her and I can tell you what she thinks and believes without interpretation etc. Can you demonstrate your relationship with Jesus is with a real person? You call it a relationship but it is nothing like a relationship any of us actually have.

Why? Why would god not give each person the level of evidence they need to believe? At least then they would have a choice to follow him or not. Paul got a theater show, why not anyone else? Does god play favorites?

No, an immoral or cruel God would tell masters they can beat their slaves, tell a woman she must marry her rapist, admonish people for not killing every last child in a tribe, force abortions as punishment, commit genocide, kill homosexuals etc. etc. Just because God may do some good things does not make him good.


Yet he did this once because he regretted making man.
The god as described in the bible is an immoral and cruel God and I can demonstrate that. Have you read your bible?

HE gave all what is needed and needful, sir...HE shows NO favoritism...and what HE gave, was the BEST...why should HE do something different than what HE has already done?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You haven't established that your moral outlook is absolute, let alone completely and utterly objective in such a way that everyone should adhere to it in a prescriptive sense. So, what substantiates your moral position that any single human being deserves to live just because they're human? (You see, this is the point that I'm getting at in that other thread on Ethics that EVERYONE seems to so conveniently ignore and just keep waltzing along and passing by as if they don't have to account fully for either it or their own, non-Christian moral point of view.)

I have never claimed my morals are absolute. Since no one can substantiate theirs are absolute either we need to use reason and logic. Even if your God exists and he decides what is moral does not mean I need to follow them if I find them immoral. If your morals allow for the killing of people just because they do homosexual acts then your morals are flawed even if you are a god if the objective is well being.


Your avoidance of my question to you has been noted,

Do you think it is ever moral to kill someone for being a homosexual?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have never claimed my morals are absolute. Since no one can substantiate theirs are absolute either we need to use reason and logic. Even if your God exists and he decides what is moral does not mean I need to follow them if I find them immoral. If your morals allow for the killing of people just because they do homosexual acts then your morals are flawed even if you are a god if the objective is well being.


Your avoidance of my question to you has been noted,

Do you think it is ever moral to kill someone for being a homosexual?

Yes. Just like it's moral for God to kill any sinner for being a sinner ... including ME!

...God, if He be the The Holy Creator, has the right and the authority to raise and to throw down, to give life and to take it away from His Creation. And somehow, and without absolute authority, you have determined subjectively that this isn't so, and it seems you've come to the conclusion that you have authority to castigate those of us who think God is in His moral right to judge and dispense either mercy or wrath as He deems He needs to do.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

In answer to post 742

When you prayed for your daughter, sir..you prayed to some one who heard you...

Thatś when you indicated, (even for that very moment) that you believed in GOD.

I did believe in god at that time. I have said I was a christian for a long time. How can you say that someone heard us pray? There is no way to know, I don't even know if my daughter actually saw anything.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It still takes the beginning cell to begin this process of ¨evolution¨ which is only a moving away from, but not a moving to a perfected (physical) state...

Evolution has no goal it just is. There is no perfected physical state. We don't know how life began.

Natural selection along the way, helps to prolong the species, but the members of that species wears down...deteriorates...and dies...

Yes, Natural selection creates new species. What is your point here?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why then from post #742, and @Oncedeceived remark to you did you say that you weren´t

What did I say I wasn't? I looked at 742 and I don't understand what you are asking.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

HE gave all what is needed and needful, sir...HE shows NO favoritism...and what HE gave, was the BEST...why should HE do something different than what HE has already done?

To show people like me that he exists.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes. Just like it's moral for God to kill any sinner for being a sinner ... including ME!

So would you do the killing?

...God, if He be the The Holy Creator, has the right and the authority to raise and to throw down, to give life and to take it away from His Creation. And somehow, and without absolute authority, you have determined subjectively that this isn't so, and it seems you've come to the conclusion that you have authority to castigate those of us who think God is in His moral right to judge and dispense either mercy or wrath as He deems He needs to do.

Why? It makes no sense that he would create people as homosexuals and then command for others to kill them if they act on it. If you create an autonomous, conscious thinking creature I think more discussion is needed to determine if you have the right to destroy them. I don't believe that they do.

 

[miknik5]

Evolution has no goal it just is. There is no perfected physical state. We don't know how life began.

Yes, Natural selection creates new species. What is your point here?

I want to know how a cell came about...from the beginning, how did one cell, per each species, even ¨ëvolve" into a recognizable....thing?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So would you do the killing?

If you're going to ask me this question, then you haven't truly been listening to anything I've said ever since you've come onto this Forum ...

... And why do I say this? I say this because ALL of what I've said to you over hundreds of post PRECLUDE my killing of other people (just short of those who invade my home or threaten my family) as an option or as a possibility. So, for you to pose the question makes me feel like you're maybe being a bit disingenuous here ...

Why? It makes no sense that he would create people as homosexuals and then command for others to kill them if they act on it. If you create an autonomous, conscious thinking creature I think more discussion is needed to determine if you have the right to destroy them. I don't believe that they do.

And then, if you think we need to discuss the ethical particulars, then there's little in the Christian ethical framework that prevents any of us from doing so. However, saying that you do discuss moral problems in depth or claiming that you are willing to do so is a far cry from actually ................... doing so. Unfortunately, and so far, I haven't really seen much in the way of your fully doing what you claim you do. No, I've just seen a lot of claims by your vouching for your own state of 'being moral,' with little discussion or educational substance to back up much, if any, of those claims.

And I have to ask: Why do you not lay out your position more fully or point specifically to the sources that have gone into your newest lines of moral thought?

 

[miknik5]

To show people like me that he exists.

Do you have a better plan than GOD?

 

[miknik5]

I did believe in god at that time. I have said I was a christian for a long time. How can you say that someone heard us pray? There is no way to know, I don't even know if my daughter actually saw anything.

The supernatural entity that was troubling your daughter, from your statement, and your daughterś words, bothered her no longer....

 

[miknik5]

Evolution has no goal it just is. There is no perfected physical state. We don't know how life began.

Yes, Natural selection creates new species. What is your point here?

I want the starting point...

 

[miknik5]

You were once a Christian, I find it strange for someone who is searching for truth would not look into other religions.

CLizby,

why would you respond to this above poster by denying that you had been a Christian if a few posts later you tell another poster that you had been a Christian for 18 years?

Please review posts 737 and 742 together and follow up with the post which you state you had been a Christian for 18 years

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So would you do the killing?

Why? It makes no sense that he would create people as homosexuals and then command for others to kill them if they act on it. If you create an autonomous, conscious thinking creature I think more discussion is needed to determine if you have the right to destroy them. I don't believe that they do.

Secondly, you still haven't addressed what substance you have in your moral thinking that provides you with 'moral authority' to tell other people where the ethical roads ends ...

Why is that?

 

[miknik5]

What did I say I wasn't? I looked at 742 and I don't understand what you are asking.

Do you understand now...or do I have to figure out how to set up a post which includes the posts 737, 742, and this additional post to @com7fy8

I disagree. I was a Christian for 18 years, studied the bible and apologists arguments, learned to read Greek etc. I lived as a christian for most of that time. Prayed and had experiences that I considered supernatural. How long have you studied evolution?

 

[miknik5]

I did believe in god at that time. I have said I was a christian for a long time. How can you say that someone heard us pray? There is no way to know, I don't even know if my daughter actually saw anything.

If your daughter did not see anything, and she was 4 years old, how was she able to give you such an unfamiliar, (though familiar in Greek Mythology), name and description of her ¨friend?¨