Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

[Guojing]

And certain parts are written to us which we cannot afford to ignore such as the book of Romans which is written to the saints that are in Rome (1:7) also known as the brethren (8:12). Paul warns the brethren in Rom 8:13 that if they live according to the flesh they will die; i.e. spiritual death. So while it is possible for God to prematurely cut short a believer's life in order that he may still be saved, Paul on the other hand in v.13 warns that those brethren who live according to the flesh will die. "Die" in this verse cannot refer to physical death as everyone physically dies irrespective of the manner in which they lived their lives. Thus those believers who live their lives according to their fleshly desires will spiritually die.

Paul won't contradict what he was saying to the Gentile church.

He already stated clearly in the first verse of that chapter that there is no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus, the latter being a noun and not a verb.

So if your interpretation of vs13 means a contradiction of vs1, I will say you interpret wrongly.

 

[Oldmantook]

Paul won't contradict what he was saying to the Gentile church.

He already stated clearly in the first verse of that chapter that there is no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus, the latter being a noun and not a verb.

So if your interpretation of vs13 means a contradiction of vs1, I will say you interpret wrongly.

Problem is you ignored or overlooked v.4 which states "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
A believer must walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh in order that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled thus having no condemnation.

 

[Danigt22]

Paul won't contradict what he was saying to the Gentile church.

He already stated clearly in the first verse of that chapter that there is no condemnation for those of us in Christ Jesus, the latter being a noun and not a verb.

So if your interpretation of vs13 means a contradiction of vs1, I will say you interpret wrongly.

We still suffer chastisement, such as Samson, King Saul... I mean, God will educate us into lawfulness even if we are still going to heaven nonetheless. So in one way of another we theoretically call to rightousness, not for salvation

Problem is you ignored or overlooked v.4 which states "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
A believer must walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh in order that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled thus having no condemnation.

This is what we will face if we continue in rebellion to the holy ghost.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


Even if we know the Lord Jesus Christ already drank the cup of wrath for us. We are still call to be fearful of the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[Danigt22]

We still suffer chastisement, such as Samson, King Saul... I mean, God will educate us into lawfulness even if we are still going to heaven nonetheless. So in one way of another we theoretically call to rightousness, but not for salvation because Jesus already suffer our punishment.


This is what we will face if we continue in rebellion to the holy ghost.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


Even if we know the Lord Jesus Christ already drank the cup of wrath for us. We are still call to be fearful of the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[Guojing]

Problem is you ignored or overlooked v.4 which states "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
A believer must walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh in order that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled thus having no condemnation.

I already anticipated this point of yours, that was why I stated its a noun and not a verb.

I trust you know the difference between the 2?

 

[Oldmantook]

I already anticipated this point of yours, that was why I stated its a noun and not a verb.

I trust you know the difference between the 2?

Incorrect. Peripatousin is a present tense participle. Try again.

 

[Oldmantook]

We still suffer chastisement, such as Samson, King Saul... I mean, God will educate us into lawfulness even if we are still going to heaven nonetheless. So in one way of another we theoretically call to rightousness, not for salvation


This is what we will face if we continue in rebellion to the holy ghost.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


Even if we know the Lord Jesus Christ already drank the cup of wrath for us. We are still call to be fearful of the judgement seat of Christ.

At the judgment seat of Christ, one will either receive eternal life or spiritual death. Are you antinomian?

 

[Danigt22]

At the judgment seat of Christ, one will either receive eternal life or spiritual death. Are you antinomian?

You are the first person that I know believes that. Where do you get that.

 

[Danigt22]

At the judgment seat of Christ, one will either receive eternal life or spiritual death. Are you antinomian?

At the judgment seat of Christ, one will either receive eternal life or spiritual death. Are you antinomian?

No, I personally dont like the hypergrace movement. Nevertheless I do believe according to Paul, they are save. Naked, poor and without any reward. But I put more faith in the finish work in the cross than in my works for my salvation. I dont want to be the guy who highlights his good works when he needs mercy for his iniquities.

 

[Oldmantook]

You are the first person that I know believes that. Where do you get that.

Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Jesus cited a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement.

 

[Oldmantook]

No, I personally dont like the hypergrace movement. Nevertheless I do believe according to Paul, they are save. Naked, poor and without any reward. But I put more faith in the finish work in the cross than in my works for my salvation. I dont want to be the guy who highlights his good works when he needs mercy for his iniquities.

The finished work of Christ makes it possible for you to obey. Without the grace supplied it would be impossible for you and I to obey. Heb 5:9 plainly states that obeying Him is necessary for eternal life. "Obeying" in this verse is a present tense participle which refers to ongoing obedience - not just a one-time act of obedience as when one first trusted in Jesus for salvation. This verse also contradicts your notion that only rewards are lost based upon the lack of obedience as obeying is linked with eternal life itself. Good works done in obedience to God are never condemned in Scripture so I don't know where you got your notion from. Good works don't cause our salvation but are the result of being saved. Thus you have thrown out the baby with the bath water.

 

[Danigt22]

Jn 5:28-29 Jesus himself stated: 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth—those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Jesus cited a specific hour (singular) in which ALL those in the tombs will be resurrected - both the "good" AND the "evil."

The Apostle Paul confirms the same thing when he stated: "and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked" (Acts 24:15). Paul referred to a [singular] resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked which parallels Jesus' statement.

Like I said a long time ago, Im not a lordship salvationist. The bible clearly says many times, you only need to believe for your sins to be forgiven.The danger of your doctrine, is that you dont trust in the finish work of the cross. But you end judaizing what salvation is.

Jhon 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[Oldmantook]

Like I said a long time ago, Im not a lordship salvationist. The bible clearly says many times, you only need to believe for your sins to be forgiven.The danger of your doctrine, is that you dont trust in the finish work of the cross. But you end judaizing what salvation is.

Jhon 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

You believe Jn 3:16 but conveniently ignore Heb 5:9? Why is that? Your belief/doctrine must accommodate all of Scripture - not just the ones you prefer.

 

[Danigt22]

You believe Jn 3:16 but conveniently ignore Heb 5:9? Why is that? Your belief/doctrine must accommodate all of Scripture - not just the ones you prefer.

You believe Jn 3:16 but conveniently ignore Heb 5:9? Why is that? Your belief/doctrine must accommodate all of Scripture - not just the ones you prefer.

Give it a rest, we will never agree. I just hope you are save.

 

[Oldmantook]

Give it a rest, we will never agree. I just hope you are save.

You explain your position which is fine but you fail to account for scriptures which contradict your belief which is problematic for you. Here's another one as you wrote you don't believe in lordship salvation.
‘Why do you call me, “Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I say? Lk 6:46
Apparently, Jesus believed in lordship salvation. You are free to disagree.

 

[Danigt22]

You explain your position which is fine but you fail to account for scriptures which contradict your belief which is problematic for you. Here's another one as you wrote you don't believe in lordship salvation.
‘Why do you call me, “Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I say? Lk 6:46
Apparently, Jesus believed in lordship salvation. You are free to disagree.

Im not afraid of that, I want the fellowship too not just salvation. But I do know there is a danger trying to justify ourselves with faith and works. Im just really bad persuading you about the dangers the galatians were facing. Since I became a new born believer, I had seen many works and good fruits in my life, nevertheless I need to remind myself Im still under wrath without the mercy of God.

 

[Oldmantook]

Im not afraid of that, I want the fellowship too not just salvation. But I do know there is a danger trying to justify ourselves with faith and works. Im just really bad persuading you about the dangers the galatians were facing. Since I became a new born believer, I had seen many works and good fruits in my life, nevertheless I need to remind myself Im still under wrath without the mercy of God.

Indeed; without God's mercy we would all be vessels of His wrath. That is something we can agree on. However, your claim that there is a danger in trying to justify ourselves with faith and works goes against Scripture. Why you wrote contradicts Js 2:24 which states we are JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. Works is the evidence of faith; not the cause of it. Like two sides of the same coin.

 

[Danigt22]

Indeed; without God's mercy we would all be vessels of His wrath. That is something we can agree on. However, your claim that there is a danger in trying to justify ourselves with faith and works goes against Scripture. Why you wrote contradicts Js 2:24 which states we are JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. Works is the evidence of faith; not the cause of it. Like two sides of the same coin.

I agree in that, but I had seen so many people chasing works instead of realizing it was faith that brings salvation. And after receiving the holy ghost, slowly you became a different person. I fought pornography for more than 5 years, I was always backsliding. Nevertheless after becoming born again, Its been so much easier than before. It something comes naturaly, just as faith. I never chase it. It was given to me for free.

 

[Oldmantook]

I agree in that, but I had seen so many people chasing works instead of realizing it was faith that brings salvation. And after receiving the holy ghost, slowly you became a different person. I fought pornography for more than 5 years, I was always backsliding. Nevertheless after becoming born again, Its been so much easier than before. It something comes naturaly, just as faith. I never chase it. It was given to me for free.

I agree with you in that sense. Works done in our own flesh do not result in our salvation. But after we become saved, our previous addictions do not have hold of us as they once did and good works out of obedience to God now become apparent in our lives as a result of being saved.

 

[Danigt22]

I agree with you in that sense. Works done in our own flesh do not result in our salvation. But after we become saved, our previous addictions do not have hold of us as they once did and good works out of obedience to God now become apparent in our lives as a result of being saved.

We need to be save first, and the only way is trusting in the finish work of Christ. Then the holy ghost guides you. Some will do better, other will die before its to late if they dont repent of their sins. God will never lose anyone who he baptize in his spirit. Except maybe for king Saul.