Ask God for Me

[Clizby WampusCat]

A beautiful testimony to GOD...
Thank you for sharing it....

So when SPF said this about his testimony I replied with this:

Also, it is telling that you believe in a god that will perform miracles for you of giving you money and healing your foot that if he did not perform these miracles you would have been perfectly fine. At the same time your god is giving you money he is letting 8 year old's die of cancer etc. Your arrogance is staggering and your god is performing the wrong miracles.

SPF then stopped replying. Would you respond to this? Why would a good God be so arbitrary and not help the most needy?

 

[Oncedeceived]

This is interesting. I did not know of this reference. If Mark was written prior to 70 then there is about 100 years or so between the original and this reference to be added. The earliest book of Mark we have in full form is around 350 and does not contain this ending. If you think it was original then why was it omitted?

This was the post you didn't respond in full to post 539 I believe:


What I am saying is the quote from Ireneaou

No, Pliny the Elder.

Gaius Plinius Secundus (AD 23/24–79), called Pliny the Elder (/ˈplɪni/), was a Roman author, a naturalist and natural philosopher, a naval and army commander of the early Roman Empire, and a friend of emperor Vespasian. He wrote the encyclopedic Naturalis Historia (Natural History), which became an editorial model for encyclopedias. He spent most of his spare time studying, writing, and investigating natural and geographic phenomena in the field.
His son was Pliny the younger.

So we have Jesus who claimed to be God and was crucified and the disciples in hiding and denying even knowing Christ, who then after the acclaimed resurrection coming out in boldness and defiance to spread the gospel. Not evidence but if one takes human nature into account this seems more in line with a truth being told than not. IMHO.

The laws of Logic are not how things behave, but are of the mind. It stands to reason that laws concerning mind and logic are of the mind and are not physical in nature. It seems to me that it would be of great importance when determining whether or not God does indeed exist, that one would consider something so essential to human existence as the mind and the Laws that allow us to intelligently discern the world around us. Does knowing something has a natural process and can be tested determine its supernatural-ness? What if those miracles were a result of timelessness or perhaps other dimensional reality?

So you said. However, nothing in your post about you losing your faith really said anything about what in your education and study led to your loss of faith. Considering what you have posted, and that is really all I have to go on, you studied atheist argumentation as most of your arguments seem to be intiated from that school of thought.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

There is actually. Maybe a brother or sister can remind me of the historical writings of one outside of the disciples regarding the resurrection of CHRIST? I can´t remember if it was Justinius?

And WE know it is true, because the same outpouring which happened upon the disciples yesterday, continues to happen up to this very present day...

What is an outpouring and how do you know it is happening?

 

[miknik5]

Y

What is an outpouring and how do you know it is happening?

What do you mean what is an outpouring? Wait, I thought you said that you were ONCE a CHRISTIAN?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

This was the post you didn't respond in full to:


What I am saying is the quote from Ireneaou

I think I responded to it here:
Ask God for Me

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Y

What do you mean what is an outpouring? Wait, I thought you said that you were ONCE a CHRISTIAN?

What is an outpouring?

 

[miknik5]

So when SPF said this about his testimony I replied with this:
Clizby WampusCat said: ↑
Also, it is telling that you believe in a god that will perform miracles for you of giving you money and healing your foot that if he did not perform these miracles you would have been perfectly fine. At the same time your god is giving you money he is letting 8 year old's die of cancer etc. Your arrogance is staggering and your god is performing the wrong miracles.


SPF then stopped replying. Would you respond to this? Why would a good God be so arbitrary and not help the most needy?

Ask GOD

 

[miknik5]

What is an outpouring?

Read the Gospel of John

 

[miknik5]

I need to let you know that the work that you should be doing, IS...the work that YOU should be doing...

 

[Oncedeceived]

So there is not any eyewitness testimony available.

How would they know if it was true? How do you know they knew it was true?

So tell me, you follow this guy that claims to be God, He does some pretty amazing things but then gets captured and dies on a cross right before your eyes. You all go into hiding so you don't suffer the same fate but then suddenly you see the very person that you thought was dead. I imagine that would give one confidence in what He claimed was true. On the other hand, you see this man killed and then you hear the people who traveled with Him are making claims that you know are not true. You aren't going to get on the band wagon, so to speak, if that goes straight to death.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I think I responded to it here:
Ask God for Me

Whoops #545 was the one.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Ask GOD

Can you ask for me? I never get a response.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Read the Gospel of John

Ok, so you won't tell me. Thanks anyway.

The reason I ask is I want to understand what you believe about god and Christianity and not straw man you. Not all Christians believe the same things even though they read the same texts.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

So tell me, you follow this guy that claims to be God, He does some pretty amazing things but then gets captured and dies on a cross right before your eyes. You all go into hiding so you don't suffer the same fate but then suddenly you see the very person that you thought was dead. I imagine that would give one confidence in what He claimed was true. On the other hand, you see this man killed and then you hear the people who traveled with Him are making claims that you know are not true. You aren't going to get on the band wagon, so to speak, if that goes straight to death.

I understand the story. How do you know it is true? Where are the accounts of the eyewitnesses? It is amazing to me that God created a universe where we can discover how it works and manipulate it for our good through logic and reason yet for the most important truths he leaves it confused and no way of knowing through logic and reason that he exists.

 

[miknik5]

Ok, so you won't tell me. Thanks anyway.

The reason I ask is I want to understand what you believe about god and Christianity and not straw man you. Not all Christians believe the same things even though they read the same texts.

If a christian believes there is ONE FOUNDATION, and their feet are planted firmly on that FOUNDATION, then they have all that is needful and necessary...

 

[miknik5]

I understand the story. How do you know it is true? Where are the accounts of the eyewitnesses? It is amazing to me that God created a universe where we can discover how it works and manipulate it for our good through logic and reason yet for the most important truths he leaves it confused and no way of knowing through logic and reason that he exists.

Because the Witnesses are telling you it is true...you, however, would have to do exactly what the townspeople in John 4 did...

Then you too would say the same thing they did regarding the woman at the well who ran off saying, come, come see a man who told me everything I ever did....

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If a christian believes there is ONE FOUNDATION, and their feet are planted firmly on that FOUNDATION, then they have all that is needful and necessary...

OK

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because the Witnesses are telling you it is true...you, however, would have to do exactly what the townspeople in John 4 did...

Then you too would say the same thing they did regarding the woman at the well who ran off saying, come, come see a man who told me everything I ever did....

So you want me to believe because Christian's tell me it is true?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because you can have provisional truth and still know something about some phenomena X without knowing the whole of it: and your belief in phenomena X could very well be true, but what you know OF IT is provisional and subject to additional insights.

You don't always wait until you THINK you have ALL the details about some phenomena X in the world before you believe it. If we did, science, as well as historical thought, could never get off of the ground.

I never said we need to know everything about something before belief. We should not believe the best explanation we should believe the best explanation supported by sufficient evidence.

Wrong. What this means is that YOU DON'T KNOW if each Christian in the past who died for their faith, particularly those in the first few centuries A.D., had 'enough' evidence or not. So, you need to be open to the realistic possibility that a number of Christians who died didn't have to die, but they chose to be martyrs anyway because they had the understanding they had.

I am open to it but give me sufficient evidence to believe that they knew and not just believed.

Some Christians who died during those first few centuries likely carried a naive level of belief; other Christians who died along with them could have been quite savvy in having a substantial praxis of inquiry by which they made informed decisions. So, how does this play into your understanding now? It means that you can't say for sure whether they had 'enough' data by which to form valid beliefs or not, so you'd be wise (like a historian) to keep the possibility open.

Again, I am open to that being the case. But why should I believe it is the case? Why is I don't know not a valid answer?

And my might also take a look at the link I added in an edit to my previous post above. It might provide a little additional education in this area for you. Unless, of course, you're not interested in having further education about it ...............................................

Maybe, if I have time.

 

[miknik5]

So you want me to believe because Christian's tell me it is true?

You were told already sir what you SHOULD do...if YOU do not believe and YOU will not listen to Christians, please tell me why YOU would need us to ask GOD anything for you?