The Demise of Evolution

[Kylie]

It's like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

Ah yes, it's like trying to tell you what the sense of Tweal is like. You can never understand because you (like must people) were born without the ability to use the sense of tweal. That's why people think there are only five main senses. Touch, sight, taste, smell and hearing. But there's a sixth one, called tweal, and it's amazing. Such a shame that you'll never be able to tweal anything, you're really missing...

What's that? You think I'm making it up? You think the sense of tweal isn't really real? Ah, of course you'd say that. After all, you're incapable of understanding tweal. Trying to explain tweal to you is like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

But since you know that something can be real even if a particular person can't experience it, surely you believe me when I assure you that tweal isn't a lie. It's real!

 

[Ophiolite]

Ah yes, it's like trying to tell you what the sense of Tweal is like. You can never understand because you (like must people) were born without the ability to use the sense of tweal. That's why people think there are only five main senses. Touch, sight, taste, smell and hearing. But there's a sixth one, called tweal, and it's amazing. Such a shame that you'll never be able to tweal anything, you're really missing...

What's that? You think I'm making it up? You think the sense of tweal isn't really real? Ah, of course you'd say that. After all, you're incapable of understanding tweal. Trying to explain tweal to you is like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

But since you know that something can be real even if a particular person can't experience it, surely you believe me when I assure you that tweal isn't a lie. It's real!

Ah yes! Twealing. A sense that, when activated, tends to produce welcoming responses in the person who is twealing. This is
commemorated in that beautiful song (whose lyrics are usually corrupted in print) "Tweal keep a welcome." Verse two goes:
Tweal keep a welcome in the hillsides
Tweal keep a welcome in the Vales
This land you knew will still be singing
When you come home again to Wales

 

[Subduction Zone]

Urban Dictionary: tweal

 

[pitabread]

It's like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

The assumption here is that everyone who can see will find that painting beautiful.

A more apt analogy is like trying to convince a person they should think a painting is beautiful when they don't.

 

[Job 33:6]

I never said he was just copying the Bible.

And even if there was a real James, the claims he was brother of Jesus could have been added on after the fact as part of those stories I mentioned earlier.

So, you're recognizing that a figure James, known as the brother of Jesus, may have existed. Are you then suggesting that this wasn't James the apostle spoken of throughout scripture? And that perhaps it was just some random guy who claimed to be James, brother of Jesus, of scripture?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It's like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

More like saying there's a beautiful painting on the wall that you can only see if you have faith - sounds like Emperor's New Clothes to me.

 

[Strathos]

bad example. You are making the error of assuming that you are the one that can see. Have you ever thought that it might be the other way around?

Ah yes, it's like trying to tell you what the sense of Tweal is like. You can never understand because you (like must people) were born without the ability to use the sense of tweal. That's why people think there are only five main senses. Touch, sight, taste, smell and hearing. But there's a sixth one, called tweal, and it's amazing. Such a shame that you'll never be able to tweal anything, you're really missing...

What's that? You think I'm making it up? You think the sense of tweal isn't really real? Ah, of course you'd say that. After all, you're incapable of understanding tweal. Trying to explain tweal to you is like trying to explain what a beautiful painting looks like to a person who has been blind since birth.

But since you know that something can be real even if a particular person can't experience it, surely you believe me when I assure you that tweal isn't a lie. It's real!

The assumption here is that everyone who can see will find that painting beautiful.

A more apt analogy is like trying to convince a person they should think a painting is beautiful when they don't.

More like saying there's a beautiful painting on the wall that you can only see if you have faith - sounds like Emperor's New Clothes to me.

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

We could use the same argument with you.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

Oh look at that. You just dismissed four peoples arguments with one sentence. This is the kind of thing Christians do to when they can’t backup their arguments. I bet if they humbled themselves you would just say it was not sincere or it was something else. Keeps you from thinking about your own beliefs I guess.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

Are you seriously saying that if somebody thinks of themselves as being less important some evidence will present itself, but you cannot present that evidence yourself?

How can you not see that that claim is as ridiculous as it sounds?

 

[pitabread]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

This seems to just boil down to, "you'll believe in the thing if you just believe in the thing". Which makes any discussion of evidence moot.

 

[Kylie]

So, you're recognizing that a figure James, known as the brother of Jesus, may have existed. Are you then suggesting that this wasn't James the apostle spoken of throughout scripture? And that perhaps it was just some random guy who claimed to be James, brother of Jesus, of scripture?

What do we actually know?

Josephus mentioned a guy named James. This James fellow is said to be the brother of Jesus.

At best, this shows that there was a guy named James, and people said he was the brother of Jesus. Of course, I'm sure you agree that people can say things about other people without those things being true. And James is a common enough name. I know two of them at work.

 

[Kylie]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

What does that mean, to humble yourself?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You can see it too if you humble yourselves. But of course you are not going to do that.

And what could be more humble than the claim that only the humble can see what you see?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

What does that mean, to humble yourself?

Apparently it means accepting the emperor's new clothes - and boasting of it.

 

[Strathos]

We could use the same argument with you.

No you couldn't.

Oh look at that. You just dismissed four peoples arguments with one sentence. This is the kind of thing Christians do to when they can’t backup their arguments. I bet if they humbled themselves you would just say it was not sincere or it was something else. Keeps you from thinking about your own beliefs I guess.

Because you were all saying the exact same thing. But I'll reply to each one from now on if you like.

Are you seriously saying that if somebody thinks of themselves as being less important some evidence will present itself, but you cannot present that evidence yourself?

How can you not see that that claim is as ridiculous as it sounds?

I can tell you about it, but only God can show it to you.

This seems to just boil down to, "you'll believe in the thing if you just believe in the thing". Which makes any discussion of evidence moot.

Not at all. You have to be open to the possibility of a spiritual experience first.

What does that mean, to humble yourself?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Speedwell]

No you couldn't.



Because you were all saying the exact same thing. But I'll reply to each one from now on if you like.



I can tell you about it, but only God can show it to you.



Not at all. You have to be open to the possibility of a spiritual experience first.

So what you seem to be saying is that
1. You have to be open to the possibility of a spiritual experience, and
2. You have to humble yourself, and then maybe
3. God will show you that the biblical texts and related sources are 100% reliable as historical evidence.
Is there anything else you have do do?

 

[pitabread]

Not at all. You have to be open to the possibility of a spiritual experience first.

Oh, I'm open to the possibility of spiritual experience. In fact, I think it's a highly fascinating idea. But I'm also highly critical of the idea, since I think people attribute a lot of things to spiritual causes that have more mundane explanations.

It's one of those "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"-type deals.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I can tell you about it, but only God can show it to you.

You can tell us about the evidence, but only God can show it? Ok, go ahead. Tell us what evidence God will show us.

Not at all. You have to be open to the possibility of a spiritual experience first.

Ah, the old "if I haven't convinced you it's got nothing to do with my argument being inadequate, it's simply because you're not prepared to just accept that I'm right" argument. It's a winner every time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No you couldn't.

Of course we could. You won't "humble" yourself when it comes to looking at how Christian beliefs tend to be terrible self contradictory. One should never assume that one's opponent has not seriously given a belief a chance. That is what you did. That was an error on your part. Most atheists that are Christians became atheists against their will. Not because they were looking for an excuse not to believe.