Biden might be in trouble.

[rjs330]

I don’t know who are “ THEY” you are talking about .. I will speak for myself .. you are right .. I dislike Trump .. there is nothing he can do to get my support.

My hate for conservatives? I am a conservative! Trump is not a conservative .. attacking immigrant is not conservatism , attacking free tread is not conservatism , hanging around with Word’s top dictator is not conservatism… going to NETO summit and insulting NETO members is not conservatism .. attacking US justice department and Law enforcement is not conservatism ..

I am far more conservatives and a proud one then any of Trump supporters or Trump ever will be!

I don't know about that. It depends on what you mean. Throwing out blanket statements like that don't sound conservative.

Attacking immigration? - Attacking illegal immigration is conservative. Recognizing what happened down on the border was not a legitimate action by those crossing is conservative.

I'm guessing you refer to tarrifs in regards to free trade. There IS such a thing as conservative fair trade. Free trade only works when all parties participate equally. However this is not the case. We cannot have free trade at this point. Here is an excellent article on the subject.

Free trade vs. fair trade

https://www.ghy.com/trade-compliance/the-republican-view-on-free-trade/
So, free trade if used equally is a conservative ideal. But since it is not, then fair trade is absolutely on the table for conservatives.

Attacking the justice Dept when it deserves it, is absolutely conservative. Conservatives want a non political Justice department. And that is not what we had. We can see how the justice department failed in it's justice. Utilizing unverified dossiers and not being honest with the FISA courts.
Don't forget it was Obama that attacked cops during his presidency. Trump supports cops, he doesn't support a crooked Justice System which no conservative does.

Now, I absolutely agree that his behavior is not a conservative value. But most conservatives would agree with his observations on NATO and other world organizations is spot on. We just don't approve of how he goes about it at times.

So I'm afraid you saying you are a staunch conservative and more conservative than any Trump supporters just doesn't pass muster.

Especially with blanket statements without any qualifications as to specifics.

 

[rjs330]

I am sorry .. I disagree everything you said here.. but then again GW Bush, Mitt Romney, John McCain, even Ronald Reagan will disagree with you!

As I said Trumpism is not conservatism .. Good things is trumpsim will end Jan 20, 21!

If you think McCain and Romney were conservatives them I see why you think you are one. They were far more moderate and centrist than conservative.

It sounds to me like that's where you fall.

I'm still not seeing where you stand on immigration and how it's more conservative than my stance.

 

[SimplyMe]

With the 2016 election the Republicans had two choices between bad character. Up until then they always seemed to have people of decent character running. The choice was easy. Then in 2016 we faced the ultimate dilema. And the conservatives chose soley based upon politics.

Quite frankly conservatives have come to realize that political beliefs are more important than character, to a point. We've also come to realize that while Trump's character hasn't been great. Much of the attacks against him are false.

Is Trump a good guy? Nope. And Character does matter. But it has been relegated to second place when it comes to the good of the entire country. You could have a pristine candidate that is a communist or socialist and we would not vote for them. Even if they faced a conservative candidate with poor character.

As you said, both sides are now in the same boat. Politics are more important than character.

No, Republicans didn't only have two choices -- Republicans had 17 different choices and settled on the worst moral choice. It was before the primary was decided that the Religious Right was making excuses for Trump, such as "Two Corinthians" comment at Liberty U.

There were plenty of conservative candidates that Republicans could have chosen that had only been married once, had pastors who could honestly state they had seen them in church, and didn't have accusations of sexual assault/rape in their past.

So, no, Republicans showed their hypocrisy by going with the worst of the 17, and then made excuses for him (such as being a "fledgling Christian"), won him the primaries and in November.

 

[A_Thinker]

I am sure others hold the same view as you. However, people saying they will vote for Biden even if they find out he is a sexual predator is not going to win over those wavering Bernie voters.

Biden is not a sexual predator.

Tara Reade's accusation is falling apart.

Investigations to-date have not turned up anything substantial ...

 

[SimplyMe]

One other thing about this is that Democrats have shown their hypocrisy in this by claiming Character doesn't matter. Then blast Trump over and over for his character. If you truly believe you are not voting for a pastor in chief then why all the angst over Trump? Over and over the left have blasted Trump for every single character flaw, whether real or not. So, have we traded places now?

Do you now wholeheartedly believe that character matters while Republicans don't anymore? Or is it more of the Democrats believe character doesn't matter except when it's a Republican?

I'm already on record that both sides are hypocrites. I just don't think many Republicans can see how bad they look attacking Biden for a story that seems flawed, but that people are investigating (even if just the press and private investigators); while they have constantly made excuses or completely ignored what Trump has been doing the last few years. And this is after you had the "Obama is a secret Muslim," "Michelle Obama is really a transsexual," all the stuff about the Church the Obamas attended in Chicago, etc. that came from Republicans the previous 8 years -- claiming Obama was not righteous enough to be President.

It is documented that Trump paid off women for having sex with him -- with allegations that they were threatened (physically and financially) if they did not keep quiet. We know his lawyer pled guilty to a felony charge of campaign finance violations, with Trump an unnamed conspirator (Individual 1). We know (based on the Mueller Report) that the Trump campaign attempted to conspire with the Russians to win the election -- just that it was various Trump campaign staffers that were too incompetent, as well as ignorant of the law, to be charged. We know that Trump frequently refused to pay people who helped build and furnish his real estate projects -- often being forced to settle for pennies on the dollar (since they couldn't afford the long legal battle like Trump could) after they sued. We know he ran a fraudulent "university," as well as a fraudulent charity.

And this is just a few of the better known stories.

If character is so important for Republicans, why was there no serious effort to put up a serious conservative to primary Trump in 2020? Why is there no push among the Religious Right, if character is so important, to support the independent campaign of Justin Amash, who appears to be a principled right wing Libertarian? I'm sorry, the facts just don't support Republicans currently caring about character -- unless the person is a Democrat.

 

[Kentonio]

I don't know about that. It depends on what you mean. Throwing out blanket statements like that don't sound conservative.

Attacking immigration? - Attacking illegal immigration is conservative. Recognizing what happened down on the border was not a legitimate action by those crossing is conservative.

I'm guessing you refer to tarrifs in regards to free trade. There IS such a thing as conservative fair trade. Free trade only works when all parties participate equally. However this is not the case. We cannot have free trade at this point. Here is an excellent article on the subject.

Free trade vs. fair trade

What's the Republican View on Free Trade? | Ask George | GHY International
So, free trade if used equally is a conservative ideal. But since it is not, then fair trade is absolutely on the table for conservatives.

Attacking the justice Dept when it deserves it, is absolutely conservative. Conservatives want a non political Justice department. And that is not what we had. We can see how the justice department failed in it's justice. Utilizing unverified dossiers and not being honest with the FISA courts.
Don't forget it was Obama that attacked cops during his presidency. Trump supports cops, he doesn't support a crooked Justice System which no conservative does.

Now, I absolutely agree that his behavior is not a conservative value. But most conservatives would agree with his observations on NATO and other world organizations is spot on. We just don't approve of how he goes about it at times.

So I'm afraid you saying you are a staunch conservative and more conservative than any Trump supporters just doesn't pass muster.

Especially with blanket statements without any qualifications as to specifics.

I suppose repeating yourself could be construed as a form of conservatism. Why use new words after all..

 

[tall73]

Biden is not a sexual predator.

Tara Reade's accusation is falling apart.

Investigations to-date have not turned up anything substantial ...

Note, I was quoting the poster who said regardless of his faults, indicating that no matter what, he would vote for Joe because he is against Trump.

 

[tall73]

Biden is not a sexual predator.

Tara Reade's accusation is falling apart.

Not sure what you mean by falling apart. Was there some new problem with the accusation? But then they are decades old accusations without any evidence pointing to the actual event to start with. So they were not established even before they could fall apart. She does have evidence, from several sources, that she told people something happened at the time.

However, that is not evidence of the actual event. I realize that is hard to get in such cases. However, if she does not have evidence then there is not much we can do.

By the same standard the accusations by Ford, etc. were equally without evidence.

Joe sure is on film doing weird things with his hands, sniffing people, making people uncomfortable, etc. So do I believe claims from multiple sources that he makes people uncomfortable? Sure, because we can see it as well.

 

[A_Thinker]

Not sure what you mean by falling apart.

She's changed her story ... from being INCOMFORTABLE ... to being assaulted.

Earlier he said that she filed a formal report. Now she says that she's not so sure.

She praised Biden ... and his efforts in "METOO" for years.

Joe sure is on film doing weird things with his hands, sniffing people, making people uncomfortable, etc. So do I believe claims from multiple sources that he makes people uncomfortable? Sure, because we can see it as well.

Joe has already apologized for invading other people's personal space ...

 

[A_Thinker]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
If it wasn't for the fact that he is running against Trump, ... I might despair ...

 

[tall73]

She's changed her story ... from being INCOMFORTABLE ... to being assaulted.

Earlier he said that she filed a formal report. Now she says that she's not so sure.

She praised Biden ... and his efforts in "METOO" for years.

I can't pretend to know what someone who was assaulted would go through. This is especially the case if she decided at the time to protect him, as the mother's statement indicates, but then later changed her mind. So to me that doesn't tell me it is false necessarily. And I am sure there were some issues she probably thought he did a good job regarding.

The system for filing complaints is apparently quite difficult to get anywhere. So who knows how far she got in official channels.

Incidentally, this is a good time to press for a law releasing info on all those settlements by our public officials that the tax payers paid out, whether there is anything to Biden's claims or not.

Having said that, again, since she didn't provide evidence to the event, none of that matters much in my calculation.

Joe has already apologized for invading other people's personal space ...

Joe Biden on Apologizing To Women: "I'm Not Sorry" In The Sense That I Did Anything Intentionally Wrong

Folks can judge the sincerity of Joe on that one.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

If you think McCain and Romney were conservatives them I see why you think you are one. They were far more moderate and centrist than conservative.

It sounds to me like that's where you fall.

I'm still not seeing where you stand on immigration and how it's more conservative than my stance.

They all are true conservative’s ad Trump is not.


Immigration

Regan gave millions of illegal immigrant amnesty, GW Bush ran on comprehensive immigration reform and path to citizenship to illegal immigrants in 2000 and 2004, he tried to pass the bill in 2007. John McCain was co-author of that bill.

NATO

Regan , GW, Bush, McCain and Romney unconditionally supported NATO . When Regan was working with NATO to take down evil USSR , Trump was sleeping around with women in NYC who are not his wife!

When GWB was working with NATO to fight in Afghanistan to defend USA , Trump was financing Crooked Hilary’s campaign.

Free Tread

Regan , GW, Bush, McCain and Romney all promoted free tread, while Trump took advantage of their work and made Trump clothing in China and when he became president he used US tax payer money to pay off farmers in WI and IA because his trade war with china did nothing but bring misery to these farmers.

Standing up to Dictator

Regan stood up to evil USSR and fought the good fight, GW Bush fought the good fight against evil Iran and N.K.. John McCain traveled the world and reminded world dictator America doesn’t tolerate tyranny .. and Trump .. he goes to N.K. and do photo-op with the most brutal dictator on earth.


Trump is not conservatives… Trump is opposite of everything conservatives stands for! I am a proud conservative .. and Trump is not!

 

[tall73]

If it wasn't for the fact that he is running against Trump, ... I might despair ...

Do you worry about actual cognitive decline or just the impression of it?

 

[A_Thinker]

Do you worry about actual cognitive decline or just the impression of it?

I saw Joe's interview response to the Tara Reade accusation ... plus him addressing other issues ... on Morning Joe.

He is, easily, as mentally fit as Trump if not better ... plus, he has the added benefit that he actaully cares about his fellow Americans.

Trump's egocentricity is a severe impediment to his qualifications for leadership ...

 

[Tiberius Lee]

I am sure others hold the same view as you. However, people saying they will vote for Biden even if they find out he is a sexual predator is not going to win over those wavering Bernie voters.

There is nothing to win over Barnie’s supporter

If Barnie’s supporter believes it is ok to demonize immigrant and treat them inhumanly , then they can stay home, vote for 3rd party candidate and let Trump get reelected.

If Barnie’s supporter believes it is “American” to block immigration based on skin color or religion, then they can stay home, vote for 3rd party candidate and let Trump get reelected.

If Barnie’s supporter believes it is ok to take away Obama care and kick millions of people out of healthcare system, then they can stay home, vote for 3rd party candidate and let Trump get reelected.

If Barnie’s supporter believes American President should embolden and give creditability to world dictator like N.K dictator, then they can stay home, vote for 3rd party candidate and let Trump get reelected.

If Barnie’s supporter believes there is no difference between Trump policy and Biden policy.. oh well ..then they don’t even understand Barnie’s policy / ideology.. because Barnie’s policy/ ideology couldn’t be far from Trump. It is true Biden policy is far from Barnie but comparing Barnie vs Trump policy , they are day and night different.

So there is nothing to win over.. it is Barnie’s voters choice .. do they want Trump get re-elected and let the country have same policy for next 4 years or they would rather elect someone centrist and stabilize the country. They wouldn’t get most of Barnie’s policy but choice couldn’t be clearer .. Biden a centrist or Trump!

 

[Tiberius Lee]

No, Republicans didn't only have two choices -- Republicans had 17 different choices and settled on the worst moral choice. It was before the primary was decided that the Religious Right was making excuses for Trump, such as "Two Corinthians" comment at Liberty U.

There were plenty of conservative candidates that Republicans could have chosen that had only been married once, had pastors who could honestly state they had seen them in church, and didn't have accusations of sexual assault/rape in their past.

So, no, Republicans showed their hypocrisy by going with the worst of the 17, and then made excuses for him (such as being a "fledgling Christian"), won him the primaries and in November.

This is a great point and thanks for bring this up. I often forget when I debate with Trump supporter and they say “ we had no choice…. Clinton was bad and we had to vote for Trump”

As you pointed out .. GOP had 17 other choice, but they chose Trump.

 

[KCfromNC]

You're missing the REAL point. Republicans have been blasted and attacked for voting for Trump because of his poor character. Nevermind Clinton's character wasn't any better.

How many of Clinton's personal attorneys went to prison for violating campaign finance laws by paying off a porn star their client was having sex with?

 

[KCfromNC]

Do you worry about actual cognitive decline or just the impression of it?

I definitely worry about it, and it will be driving my voting decisions. For example :

“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”

 

[jgarden]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Given that this President couldn't remember that he had paid "hush-money" to Stormy Daniels, the White House Pandemic Office was disbanded in 2018 or that the intelligence agencies had briefed him over a dozen times concerning the pandemic during January and February alone, Trump supporters might want to think twice before accusing another candidate of dementia and Alzheimers!

 

[rjs330]

They all are true conservative’s ad Trump is not.


Immigration

Regan gave millions of illegal immigrant amnesty, GW Bush ran on comprehensive immigration reform and path to citizenship to illegal immigrants in 2000 and 2004, he tried to pass the bill in 2007. John McCain was co-author of that bill.

NATO

Regan , GW, Bush, McCain and Romney unconditionally supported NATO . When Regan was working with NATO to take down evil USSR , Trump was sleeping around with women in NYC who are not his wife!

When GWB was working with NATO to fight in Afghanistan to defend USA , Trump was financing Crooked Hilary’s campaign.

Free Tread

Regan , GW, Bush, McCain and Romney all promoted free tread, while Trump took advantage of their work and made Trump clothing in China and when he became president he used US tax payer money to pay off farmers in WI and IA because his trade war with china did nothing but bring misery to these farmers.

Standing up to Dictator

Regan stood up to evil USSR and fought the good fight, GW Bush fought the good fight against evil Iran and N.K.. John McCain traveled the world and reminded world dictator America doesn’t tolerate tyranny .. and Trump .. he goes to N.K. and do photo-op with the most brutal dictator on earth.


Trump is not conservatives… Trump is opposite of everything conservatives stands for! I am a proud conservative .. and Trump is not!

Thanks for responding.

We conservatives learned from Reagans mistake on amnesty. Reagan later told his son about his mistake as well. He learned a lesson himself.
Amnesty was provided in hopes of fixing a situation. He was promised that the border would be secured and enforcement would be passed by the Democrats. It didn't happen. He later told his son he would do it differently if he had to do it over again. Only 3 million illegals were granted amnesty. I supported immigration reform then and still do. However lessons were learned.

The CONSERVATIVE viewpoint is now to secure the border first and provide enforcement BEFORE dealing with illegals. There was a great debate over Bushes and MCains amnesty plan. We pointed out the failure of the 1986 plan. Conservatives learned from that and opposed Bushes plan because we realized without a secure border and enforcement amnesty is a bad idea.

How do you see amnesty, and border security and illegal enforcement?

Conservatives believe is securing the border first, get good enforcement in place THEN and only THEN do we deal with the illegals that are here.
Where do you stand?