God's will to save sinners overcomes sinners' will to reject God. No, my point was that man's exercise of his alleged 'free will' under Adam leads to death, because his will is overborne by sin, the world and the devil. This is the recurrent theme throughout the scripture of Israel's failure, and why indeed a saviour was needed. Because man can't get to God by the law. I'm not even going to debate this point, it's so fundamental. You think you're a righteous Christian, well the Pharisees thought they were doing it right too.
Not really dear friend, it seems you simply ignored the very post you are quoting from and the scriptures provided that show why your mixing up free will with God's power to save a sinner as they have faith in God's Word *1 JOHN 5:4; ROMANS 1:16.
What you mix up with your claims on free will is this. Free will is what God gives to all mankind to make decision with to choose with. You mix up free will that all men have with God's power to accomplish what mankind spiritually do.
As posted earlier if we test your understanding of the scriptures which is that mandkind has no free will, we see JESUS and all of the prophets before JESUS going through all ISRAEL proclaiming "REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND *
MATTHEW 3:2;
MATTHEW 4:17:
MARK 1:15;
MARK 6:12;
LUKE 13:3-5;
LUKE 17:3-4; EZEKIEL 4:6; EZEKIEL 18:20-32. The APOSTLES and disciples proclaiming the same as JESUS and the Prophets in ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:22; ACTS 17:30;
REVELATION 2:5. If there was no free will why would God through the prophets, JESUS and all the apostles be asking people to repent if they could not do choose to believe God's Word and do so? It is in believing God's Word that God's power is given to those who believe *1 JOHN 5:4.
This is different to being a slave to sin which before we choose to believe and follow God's Word we all are *ROMANS 7:9-24; ROMANS 6:1-23. The power to walk in God's Spirit comes in believing the Word of God dear friend *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 1:16.
So after we excercise our free will to choose to believe God's Word, what brings the power to walk in God's Word through His God's Spirit?
Drum roll please...
1 JOHN 5:4 [4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
GALATIANS 5:16[16], This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
So how does the Gospel of God's free grace work? Well THROUGH FAITH of course *
EPHESIANS 2:8-9. We get presented with the Word of God. We choose to believe or not believe (our part). If we do not believe we remain "UNBELIEVERS" and remain in sin. If we "BELIEVE" (have faith) on the Word of God only, we seek God in repentance and forgiveness and believe his promises *ACTS 2:38;
1 JOHN 1:9;
JOHN 3:16. God's Spirit gives us the power then to walk in God's Word as we believe (have faith) *
1 JOHN 5:4;
1 JOHN 3:6-9;
ROMANS 8:1-4;
GALATIANS 5:16;
HEBREWS 8:10-11;
ROMANS 3:31;
ROMANS 13:8-10.
No one has salvation dear friend without having the free will to choose it. Free will allows us to accept God's free gift or reject God's free gift. God provides the POWER as we believe His Word. Your mixing up mans free will to choose with God's POWER to save! The power comes through the gospel as we choose to believe it.
ROMANS 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD TO SALVATION TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Bottom line is, to know Him is to love Him. So if you don't love Him, it's because you don't know Him. Solution? He reveals who He is, and then the heart melts like wax, the sinner is born again by fire and the Spirit, the knee bends and the tongue confesses. Purification and healing can start
Yes we need a new heart to LOVE God. This is the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 but love is not separate from God's LAW it is the power that establishes Gods law in the life of all those who have faith in God's Word and are made free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:15; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:1-23; ROMANS 3:31 and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS of love to God and man, HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. Before we come to JESUS the role of God's LAW is to lead us to the cross all undone as sinners where we look up in faith and see Gods' love at the foot of the cross and receive God's forgivness. It is by holding out the hand of faith we receive God's gift of GRACE *EPHESIANS 2:8.
This entire book/ sermon is preached to Hebrew Christians who are considering abandoning the faith and reverting to the Torah. The passage in question is an example of prophetic rhetoric. This can be seen by the reference to Deut 32:35-36:
'Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near, And the impending things are hastening upon them.' "For the LORD will vindicate His people, And will have compassion on His servants, When He sees that their strength is gone, And there is none remaining, bond or free.
So retribution that leads to restoration, aka corrective punishment. Retributive language for a restorative purpose. God is passionate, and Paul's speaking the language of passion to ppl who understood it. Also seen here:
Therefore the Lord GOD of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares, "Ah, I will be relieved of My adversaries And avenge Myself on My foes. "I will also turn My hand against you, And will smelt away your dross as with lye And will remove all your alloy. "Then I will restore your judges as at the first, And your counselors as at the beginning; After that you will be called the city of righteousness, A faithful city." (Isa 1:24-26)
Say to those with anxious heart, "Take courage, fear not. Behold, your God will come with vengeance; The recompense of God will come, But He will save you." Then the eyes of the blind will be opened And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. Then the lame will leap like a deer, And the tongue of the mute will shout for joy. For waters will break forth in the wilderness And streams in the Arabah. (Isa 35:4-6)
So I daresay, unlike the humble modern protestant, the ancient Hebe had some knowledge that God's wrath (although a fearful thing) was ultimately corrective (because He loves us). Further to this, as we see later in Hebrews, Paul explains in prose as to what he's saying here in Ch.12:4-11, a passage editorially described as 'God disciplines His Children', and concludes: "No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (v.11)
Again, Paul concludes the chapter with 'for our God is a consuming fire' (Heb 12:29), referencing Deut 4:24, wherein God warns Israel of the consequences of idolatry, leading them into great distress etc, and then:
For the LORD your God is a merciful God; He will not abandon you or destroy you or forget the covenant with your fathers, which He swore to them by oath (Deut 4:31)
This consuming fire theme is expounded in other scriptures, such as Jer 5:3 and Zeph 5:8-9, which clarify that the fire of God's wrath is to destroy the sinful rubbish and produce repentance. Surely it's not pleasant, but it's there to destroy the sin and deliver the sinner transformed.
And what covenant was that? Could it be the covenant with Abraham that all the nations of the world shall be blessed (Gen 22:18), guaranteed by the new covenant (Heb 7:22), and delivered in Revelation, where the nations after being given over to the tribulation will it says worship God (Rev 15:4), and after being consumed by heavenly fire (Rev 20:9) and/or cast into the Lake of Fire (20:15), then emerge to walk in the light of the New City and bring their gifts (21:24-26), and then receive healing from the tree of life (22:2)?
So before you rush enthusiastically into casting God as the 'Reject me and I'll dump you' type, maybe have a little think about true love, and how covenantal love works. That's where trust and belief start.
Nonsense dear Shrewd. All you have done here is pop all over the place without addressing chapter context to HEBREWS 10 and are trying to read into HEBREWS 10 what it is not saying trying to argue that these sciptures are only relavant to HEBREWS returning to a sacrificial system without any reference to any JEWS trying to return to a Sacrificial system.
You have used eisegesis or your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not teach to get your interpretation where as the correct method for understanding the scriptures is by asking for God's guidence though his Spirit *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13 and using the practice of exegesis or letting the scripture interpret itself or using topical analysis of subject matter.
The context and subject matter is to God's NEW COVENANT promise and those who continue in known unrepentant SIN after they have been given a knowledge of the truth! No where in HEBREWS 10 does it mention anything about JEWISH beleivers returning to the sacrificial system. Show me the scripture please? HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10 are all the same subject matter showing the fulfillment of the MOSIAC LAWS lor remission of sins in the new covenant promise (eg. HEBREWS 8:10-12)
Let's look at the detail and subject matter being discussed throughout the chapter....
HEBREWS 10:1-9 is continuing on from HEBREWS 7, HEBREWS 8 and HEBREWS 9 where we see that the chapter subject matter is continuing talking about the fulfillment of the "SHADOW LAWS" in ordinances in reference to the sacrificial systems and how they all point to JESUS as our true sacrifice and his ministry as our great High Priest and his work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary as written in the Mosaic book of the law.
HEBREWS 10:10-17 shows that Chrsits death on the cross is our complete sacrifice everytime sin is committed to those who are "sanctified" v14; once and for all *
HEBREWS 10:10 and for all time. Then we move on and the focus of the discussion is between the two covenant (old and new) v15-17 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, said the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. This is in reference to JEREMIAH 31:31-34 and the previous chapters in HEBREWS 8:10-12.
HEBREWS 10:18-22 show that the new covenants fulfillment of all sacrifices in Christs perfect sacrifice and no more sin offerings are required within the new covenant which pointed to JESUS and his work as our great High Priest and Paul encouraging the Jewish beleivers by saying "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; for he is faithful that promised v23. Note these are believers in the new covenant faith.
They are not returning to animal sacrifices as you claim and there is nothing in the whole book of HEBREWS to indicate this theory.
HEBREWS 10:23-29 we come to the "WARNINGS" to "BELIEVERS" to "HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH" *
HEBREWS 10:23 NOT TO " SIN WILLFULLY AFTER RECEIVING AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD *
HEBREWS 10:26; then to
HEBREWS 10:29 [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?
The WARNING here in context is to "BELIEVERS" (THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT - CHRIST SACRIFICE) not to "SIN WILLFULLY" after receiving a KNOWLEDGE of the truth *
HEBREWS 10:26 continuing to
HEBREWS 10:29 of those who BELIEVERS who "SIN WILLFULLY" [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he (those who sin willfully) be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which
he was sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?
CONTEXT: here to this WARNING to BELIEVERS (If WE v26) is to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS that SIN WILLFULLY after receiveing a knowledge of the truth.
HEBREWS 10:29 stating their punishment after being
sanctified ἁγιάζω, (past tense to was)
Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 37: sanctified ἁγιάζω means to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin :
1 Corinthians 6:11;
Ephesians 5:26;
Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14, Hebrews 10:29;
Hebrews 13:12;
Hebrews 2:11 (equivalent to כִּפֶר,
Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to sanctify From
hagios; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate -- hallow, be holy, sanctify.
Note what is shown here in
HEBREWS 10:26-29?
1. Warning to believers (if we believers) sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth v26
2. How much more greater will their punishment be v29
3. They were (past tense) made holy purified from the guilt of sin (sanctified) by the blood of the covenant v29
4. By sinning willfully count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing v29
5. Had received God's Spirit but grieved and insulted it v29.
This warning is referring to those who fall into apostasy is τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς χάριτος ἐνυβρίσας, “and insult the spirit of grace”. The spirit of grace is the distinctive gift of Christian times. To have blasphemed this gracious Spirit, who brings the assurance of God’s presence and pardon, and gifts suited to each believer, is to renounce all part in things spiritual.
HEBREWS 6:4-8;
HEBREWS 2:4;
EPHESIANS 4:7
The CONTEXT of v29 clearly shows that PAUL is addressing the BELIEVERS. The section above concludes with...
[35], Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward.
[36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
[38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [Believers going back to willful sin see v26-29], my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
[39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Context is very clear don't you think and it is not teaching what you are.