Voluntary Sin

[pescador]

Of course. But you are evading my question.
In theory. Someone who is a full blown believer and understands what committing a sin would be, commits that sin....in a moment of weakness or whatever, are they without hope?

The direct answer is... NO!

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Because it's clear that you don't understand that being a Christian means that you are in Christ, in whom there is no sin. We have died to sin but are alive to God in Christ Jesus.

No offense, but you're just repeating a stereotypical Christian phrase, throwing scripture around and not making the slightest effort to explain what exactly it all means.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

The direct answer is... NO!

You probably should've said that from the beginning.

 

[savedthroughgrace]

Because it's clear that you don't understand that being a Christian means that you are in Christ, in whom there is no sin. We have died to sin but are alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I don't understand how my thoughts and understanding are clear to you when I haven't even posted them. I have simply asked the OP questions in order for me to gain further understanding of their viewpoint.

 

[renniks]

In your eyes, maybe, but not in God's. Here are a few words (from Romans) to consider...

"Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God."

and...

"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Positionally we are covered by Christ's righteousness, doesn't mean we achieve perfection in this life.

 

[savedthroughgrace]

1 John 1:7-10 King James Version (KJV)

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Zao is life]

How can you distinguish the person who does these things from the unbeliever?

I liked your post even though it was not addressed to me because for once we agree.

John said that no one who is born of God continues to sin willfully, but if through his or her own weakness/sinful nature he or she slips up, we have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ the Righteous.

1 John 2:1-6 "1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that all of you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

Keeping His commandments does not come from attempts to obey the Law of Moses. Love of God and love for neigbor and for the brethren fulfills all the precepts and commandments of Moses - because the one who abides in Christ will walk by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will not continue to abide in anyone who willfully continues in the sorts of sins listed in that post.

The Holy Spirit will convict individuals who abide in Christ even of the thoughts which rebel against the will of God.

The Laws given to Moses reflect the character of God - but only the Life of Christ in individuals produces the fruit which expresses the character of God.

That's the difference between attempting to live by the Law of Moses and living by faith in Christ.

 

[HARK!]

I'm asking what you are claiming they mean.

I made no claim. I posted scripture. What do you suppose it means?

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

 

[pescador]

Either you need to explain what God sees as sinless, or you also have to show me one person besides Jesus Christ who is able to live out their whole lives without sinning at all.

I don't have to do anything. All you have to do is read the Bible carefully, with an open mind.

"For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." Colossians 3:3

"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Matthew 7:7-8

You might also want to read read about Adam and Eve in Genesis. They were living in paradise until they chose to be like God (so they thought) and have all the answers. It's one of the greatest lessons of the Bible.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

I don't have to do anything. All you have to do is read the Bible carefully, with an open mind.

"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Matthew 7:7-8

You might also want to read read about Adam and Eve in Genesis. They were living in paradise until they chose to be like God (so they thought) and have all the answers. It's one of the greatest lessons of the Bible.

Pescador, the onus is on you to explain why you pick certain passages to make an argument. You cannot assume that everyone knows what you're talking about--especially when you word it in such a contrarian manner.

I believe we probably agree on what you're saying, I'm simply giving constructive criticism because your words do not come off as clearly as maybe you'd intended.

 

[HARK!]

Either you need to explain what God sees as sinless, or you also have to show me one person besides Jesus Christ who is able to live out their whole lives without sinning at all.

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

 

[renniks]

I made no claim. I posted scripture. What do you suppose it means?

It means we are to follow Christ. In doing so, we are blameless in God's sight.

What do you think Galatians 2:21 means?

 

[savedthroughgrace]

HARK! why won't you answer my question?

 

[HARK!]

Of course. But you are evading my question.
In theory. Someone who is a full blown believer and understands what committing a sin would be, commits that sin....in a moment of weakness or whatever, are they without hope?

That's not my place to say. Only YHWH.

 

[HARK!]

It means we are to follow Christ. In doing so, we are blameless in God's sight.

What do you think Galatians 2:21 means?

Messiah wasn't even born when that happened. Try again.

 

[pescador]

Pescador, the onus is on you to explain why you pick certain passages to make an argument. You cannot assume that everyone knows what you're talking about--especially when you word it in such a contrarian manner.

I believe we probably agree on what you're saying, I'm simply giving constructive criticism because your words do not come off as clearly as maybe you'd intended.

Why do you keep challenging me? There is no onus on me, period. You may think that you're clever and therefore in a position to challenge others, which shows your spiritual state.

I was like you once, until the living Christ revealed Himself to me, then I had no more need to challenge others. If you truly want answers, ask God and he will give them to you.

Matthew 7:7-8, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

 

[savedthroughgrace]

Why do you keep challenging me? There is no onus on me, period. You may think that you're clever and therefore in a position to challenge others, which shows your spiritual state.

I was like you once, until the living Christ revealed Himself to me, then I had no more need to challenge others. If you truly want answers, ask God and he will give them to you.

Matthew 7:7-8, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

You are very quick to judge others spiritual state. If I weren't a believer I would want nothing of what you have to offer. Some of you sound a whole lot like the Pharisees

 

[Hammster]

I answered you with scripture. You answered me with opinion. I'll take scripture over opinion anytime.

You posted scripture and assumed the meaning. I explained what was actually meant. I’ll take the truth over your abuse of scripture every time.

 

[savedthroughgrace]

That's not my place to say. Only YHWH.

Its only your job to insinuate and not help others understand scripture? YHWH doesn't use people to further his Kingdom and Will?