Voluntary Sin

[HARK!]

1 Chronicle 21:10 - 13.

Thank you. Now I have two witnesses. I shouldn't forget this message.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:10
Go, and you will tell David, saying, Thus says Yahweh: I proffer on you three things. Choose for yourself one of them that I may do it to you.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:11
When Gad came to David, he said to him, Thus speaks Yahweh: Take your choice.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:12
Should there be three years of famine? Or should there be three months of being swept away before your foes, with the sword of your enemies overtaking you? Or should there be three days of the sword of Yahweh and of plague in the land, with the messenger of Yahweh bringing ruin throughout the territory of Israel? Now see what word I should bring back to the One sending me.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:13
David replied to Gad, Utter distress is mine. Do let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh, for His compassions are very abundant; but let me not fall into the hand of humanity.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

This lesson for David is written in my heart.

 

[GospelS]

Christians have been out from under the Law of Moses for two thousand years and so have no history or memory of it. We would have to be re-educated about it.

I feel blessed that God is bringing people who are re-educating us. I admire their wisdom. Somehow I consider this to be another sign of the nearing of the end times. We might really need this knowledge and understanding these days. It might also help us to recognize the days that we live in and the near coming future prophesies.

 

[HARK!]

This isn’t for believers, but for the Jews in the audience who have rejected the gospel. Their remains no more sacrifice because they have rejected the true sacrifice.

I put a little more meat on the verses I posted in the OP; and I no evidence for this unsupported assertion.


16 'This is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with them after those days,' the Lord is saying, 'imparting My laws to their hearts, I shall be inscribing them on their comprehension also, 17 and of their sins and their lawlessnesses shall I under no circumstances still be reminded.'" 18 Now where there is a pardon of these, there is no longer an approach present concerned with sin." 19 Having then, brethren, boldness for the entrance of the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a recently slain and living way which He dedicates for us, through the curtain, that is, His flesh, 21 and a great Priest over the house of God, 22 we may be approaching with a true heart, in the assurance of faith, with hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience, and a body bathed in clean water." 23 We may be retaining the avowal of the expectation without wavering, for faithful is He Who promises." 24 And we may be considering one another to incite to love and ideal acts, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, according as the custom of some is, but entreating, and so much rather as you are observing the day drawing near." 26 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins, 27 but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile." 28 Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace? 30 For we are acquainted with Him Who is saying, Mine is vengeance! I will repay! the Lord is saying, and again, "The Lord will be judging His people"


Nothing here about Jews in rejection. In fact just the opposite.

 

[Quietus]

It’s talking about the sin of continuing to slay lambs for sin offerings, rather than believe on Christ. Can people ever read scriptures in the context of their books, rather than pluck them out as though they are to be used as isolated aphorisms? The entirety of Hebrews is to the Jews, who want to keep being under the law, doing their rituals.

 

[Hammster]

I put a little more meat on the verses I posted in the OP; and I no evidence for this unsupported assertion.


16 'This is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with them after those days,' the Lord is saying, 'imparting My laws to their hearts, I shall be inscribing them on their comprehension also, 17 and of their sins and their lawlessnesses shall I under no circumstances still be reminded.'" 18 Now where there is a pardon of these, there is no longer an approach present concerned with sin." 19 Having then, brethren, boldness for the entrance of the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a recently slain and living way which He dedicates for us, through the curtain, that is, His flesh, 21 and a great Priest over the house of God, 22 we may be approaching with a true heart, in the assurance of faith, with hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience, and a body bathed in clean water." 23 We may be retaining the avowal of the expectation without wavering, for faithful is He Who promises." 24 And we may be considering one another to incite to love and ideal acts, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, according as the custom of some is, but entreating, and so much rather as you are observing the day drawing near." 26 For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins, 27 but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile." 28 Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace? 30 For we are acquainted with Him Who is saying, Mine is vengeance! I will repay! the Lord is saying, and again, "The Lord will be judging His people"


Nothing here about Jews in rejection. In fact just the opposite.

That’s exactly what it’s about. If you stop trying to read yourself into it, it becomes clearer.

 

[HARK!]

It’s talking about the sin of continuing to slay lambs for sin offerings, rather than believe on Christ. Can people ever read scriptures in the context of their books, rather than pluck them out as though they are to be used as isolated aphorisms? The entirety of Hebrews is to the Jews, who want to keep being under the law, doing their rituals.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

 

[HARK!]

That’s exactly what it’s about. If you stop trying to read yourself into it, it becomes clearer.

I'm just reading what the scripture says. The verses in question say nothing about them being aimed at Jews in the audience.

 

[RaymondG]

Accidentally eating a corn chip made with pork lard, and not even knowing it. This is what our High priest covers on Yom Kippur.

So if this were to happen to you...would you say that you have commited a sin that you needed to repent of? What if it took you a year to realize that you ate pork, would you have become a sinner for the past year, the moment you found out?

And what you are you views on this:
"1 Corinthians 10:27
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

 

[Hammster]

I'm just reading what the scripture says. The verses in question say nothing about them being aimed at Jews in the audience.

When he calls them brethren, that should be your clue. When he’s taking to Christians, he calls them holy brethren.

Plus, if you actually read what’s said without your presuppositions, you’ll see that I’m correct.

 

[HARK!]

So if this were to happen to you...would you say that you have commited a sin that you needed to repent of? What if it tool you a year to realize that you ate pork, would you have become a sinner for the past year, the moment you found out?

The logic on this is very simple. If you broke the law by running a red light; and you didn't know the light was red; and you didn't know you ran a red light; did you break the law?

If you answered no:

When you get the ticket from the traffic camera, 6 months later; that says you broke the law; did you break the law when you ran the light; or did you break the law when you got the ticket?

 

[1213]

How is it reconciled?
(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,
...

I don’t know any way to reconcile it. (I think sin means that one rejects God. If one does so voluntarily, it seems the person wants to be without God).

 

[RaymondG]

The logic on this is very simple. If you broke the law by running a red light; and you didn't know the light was red; and you didn't know you ran a red light; did you break the law?

If you answered no:

When you get the ticket from the traffic camera, 6 months later; that says you broke the law; did you break the law when you ran the light; or did you break the law when you got the ticket?

OH I see. You believe that Mans ways are God's ways. And Man's Thoughts are like God's thoughts.

I do not believe this to be the case, therefore, any comparisons outlining , What Would Man Do, are fruitless.

Since you ignored my last scripture from the NT....lets me try one from the OT:
"let the weak say, I am strong."

Was YHWH telling them to lie? and is lying a sin?

 

[HARK!]

When he calls them brethren, that should be your clue. When he’s taking to Christians, he calls them holy brethren.

Plus, if you actually read what’s said without your presuppositions, you’ll see that I’m correct.

Really?

Funny, Yahshua didn't call his brothers holy:


(CLV) Mt 12:48
Yet He, answering, said to the one saying it to Him, "Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?"

(CLV) Mt 12:49
And stretching out His hand over His disciples, He said, "Lo! My mother and My brothers!

I actually did read it without presuppositions.

19 Having then, brethren, boldness for the entrance of the holy places (do unbelievers get to go into this place with boldness? I wouldn't try it in unbelief!) by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a recently slain and living way which He dedicates for us

Who is us?

 

[HARK!]

I don’t know any way to reconcile it. (I think sin means that one rejects God. If one does so voluntarily, it seems the person wants to be without God).

It's not good.

It would seem that there will be judgement. It would seem that the sins from before recognition of the truth will be forgotten; but those after the recognition of the truth will be judged.

(CLV) Ro 2:11
For there is not partiality with God,

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

 

[dqhall]

Thank you. Now I have two witnesses. I shouldn't forget this message.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:10
Go, and you will tell David, saying, Thus says Yahweh: I proffer on you three things. Choose for yourself one of them that I may do it to you.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:11
When Gad came to David, he said to him, Thus speaks Yahweh: Take your choice.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:12
Should there be three years of famine? Or should there be three months of being swept away before your foes, with the sword of your enemies overtaking you? Or should there be three days of the sword of Yahweh and of plague in the land, with the messenger of Yahweh bringing ruin throughout the territory of Israel? Now see what word I should bring back to the One sending me.

(CLV) 1Ch 21:13
David replied to Gad, Utter distress is mine. Do let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh, for His compassions are very abundant; but let me not fall into the hand of humanity.

The logic on this is very simple. If you broke the law by running a red light; and you didn't know the light was red; and you didn't know you ran a red light; did you break the law?

If you answered no:

When you get the ticket from the traffic camera, 6 months later; that says you broke the law; did you break the law when you ran the light; or did you break the law when you got the ticket?

Suppose it was 2:00 AM. I stopped at the intersection, looked then proceeded to run the red light to save time and fuel. No one judged me. I did not feel guilty.

If I eat a slice of ham on purpose as it was served by my host at an Easter supper, I do not have to take an animal to the temple mount for a sin offering. I did not intend to try to please a devout Jew who does not even obey Torah laws requiring sacrificial offerings anyway. Reading Acts 15 and Paul’s letters I learned I do not need to be circumcised to be Holy. Some cohen rabbi will not get 10%. He might be upset I went free. I will not go insane if I eat a pork rind or two, yet I am almost vegan most of the time. I will not pick up the Bible and think I am supposed to stone a woman for running the dishwasher on the Sabbath. Such would be murder. How was it written in the Torah that Moses murdered an Egyptian? Jesus did not come to murder. Jesus taught, “Blessed are the merciful, for they will obtain mercy.”

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How is it reconciled?



(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

Jesus Christ of Nazareth

 

[Phil W]

How is it reconciled?



(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

It isn't.
Our only recourse is to finally have a REAL repentance from sin...permanently.
That will be the START of a Christians walk in the light.

 

[Salvadore]

I made a profession of faith and was baptized at age 12. I willfully sinned throughout my teens. Unless a person is locked up and anesthetized after baptism, that person is probably going to willfully sin at some point. Even a bad thought is sin. I think the scripture is referring to apostasy up to the time of death.

 

[HARK!]

It isn't.
Our only recourse is to finally have a REAL repentance from sin...permanently.
That will be the START of a Christians walk in the light.

Hallelu YAH!