• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Earth is Flat

What is the Earth?

  • A rotating sphere in space orbiting the Sun

    Votes: 66 88.0%
  • A flat plane of land under the waters God saw in the beginning

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Total voters
    75

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I'll go with the repeatable math over your misinterpretation every day of the week.
And this is the problem of Globe Earth in a nutshell. It only works on paper, using math and formulas that only work in that model. You'll take numbers over observable reality, you don't even trust your own eyes.

FE: Water doesn't stick to a ball due to it's mass
GE: But it works in this simulation so I'll go with that

FE: The Sun is clearly a local light source as observed by sunlight rays
GE: Yeah well... my text book says it's 93 million miles away so I'll go with that

:doh1:

Edit: Way to run away from the discussion we were having about the sunlight rays by bringing up math ^_^
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Just because you can't do math doesn't mean you can dismiss it. You remind me of a little kid who keeps insisting that 2 + 2 = 22.
You guys dodged the sunlight rays example by bringing up math, explain how the sun can create those kind of sunlight rays if it's not a local light source?
 
Upvote 0

46AND2

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...
Sep 5, 2012
5,807
2,210
Vancouver, WA
✟109,603.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
And this is the problem of Globe Earth in a nutshell. It only works on paper, using math and formulas that only work in that model. You'll take numbers over observable reality, you don't even trust your own eyes.

FE: Water doesn't stick to a ball due to it's mass
GE: But it works in this simulation so I'll go with that

FE: The Sun is clearly a local light source as observed by sunlight rays
GE: Yeah well... my text book says it's 93 million miles away so I'll go with that

:doh1:

There are very simple physics answers to your "problems." Its well understood.. Learn them.


On a flat earth, using the triangulation method, South Pole, Antarctica should be 178,000 miles from the equator using the height measurement of the sun from 45 degrees south latitude(about 3100 miles).. Its laughably not.

Based on simple observation and trig, it is patently obvious the earth is not flat.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
There are very simple physics answers to your "problems." Its well understood.. Learn them.


On a flat earth, using the triangulation method, South Pole, Antarctica should be 178,000 miles from the equator using the height measurement of the sun from 45 degrees south latitude(about 3100 miles).. Its laughably not.

Based on simple observation and trig, it is patently obvious the earth is not flat.
Explain the sunlight rays I was talking about in post #420
 
Upvote 0

46AND2

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...
Sep 5, 2012
5,807
2,210
Vancouver, WA
✟109,603.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Explain the sunlight rays I was talking about in post #420

Why? If simple math doesn't convince you, why would physics? You have to deny basic physics tenets (and even more basic math, obviously) to support your position.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,870
4,776
✟354,996.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
iu

8720148_orig.jpg

It's called linear perspective

iu

8720148_orig.jpg
All you have confirmed is that flat earthers have contradicted themselves.
Is the disappearing ship the result of atmospheric refraction or perspective?
The video is one of the more ludicrous ones I have seen.
Surveyors who have used optical instruments for centuries have had no such difficulties in calculating the height of distant vertical objects which according to the video would be impossible as the ground level reference point cannot be determined due to "perspective".
The video is an excellent example of confirmation bias to the point of self delusion.
 
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
You know what, now's a perfect time to do another Scientific Method example. And this time I'll use the Scientific Method @Subduction Zone wanted me to use in post #256

Ask a Question
Is the Solar System model accurate?

Do Background Research
According to NASA, The Sun is 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth and 93 Million Miles away.

Construct a Hypothesis
If the Sun is really that far away then sunlight should be parallel when it passes through the clouds due to the distance.

Test with an Experiment
Every photo of sunlight traveling though the clouds spreads out. This shouldn't be possible if the Sun were really 93 million miles away.

main-qimg-d93f005be8d8548380ef061d09253f8d-c


Is the Procedure Working?

Yes, I conducted a small scale experiment to confirm the property of light. When the light source is close, it diverges from the source. When it's very far away, the light is parallel.

maxresdefault.jpg


Analyze Data and Draw Conclusions.
The photos match the close light source experiment which means the Sun is a local light source. There are no instances where light traveling through clouds does not diverge. This means the sun is close above the clouds. This also means that there's no way the sun is 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth.

Do Results align with Hypothesis?
No, according to the small scale model, properties of light, and laws of physics that aren't theories, there's absolutely no way the solar system model is true.

Communicate Results
This debunks the Solar System model. If the sun is as close as this experiment shows then the sun is also not 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth. This means we don't orbit the Sun and that gravity doesn't work the way scientists claim it does. If so then the Sun is orbiting us. This now draws the question on what are the planets orbiting if not the sun? This also means that the temperature of the sun is also not as hot as the scientists claim because the sun being so close and so hot would have killed us by now. Overall, either NASA is not good at their job or they have been purposely lying to us this entire time. Regardless their data and claims should not be taken seriously from here on out. They are not a trustworthy source of information and new independent research should be done to determine the true nature of Earth, the Sun, the moon, the stars and the planets.
 
Upvote 0

46AND2

Forty six and two are just ahead of me...
Sep 5, 2012
5,807
2,210
Vancouver, WA
✟109,603.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Edit: Way to run away from the discussion we were having about the sunlight rays by bringing up math ^_^

Follow the conversation. I was never talking to you about Sunrays. I asked you to mathematically show me the height of the sun. You tried, you failed, now you are using diversion tactics to avoid admitting you were wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Follow the conversation. I was never talking to you about Sunrays. I asked you to mathematically show me the height of the sun. You tried, you failed, now you are using diversion tactics to avoid admitting you were wrong.
Still waiting on that explanation. The fact of the matter is we don't know the true nature of the sun, all we know is it's not 93 million miles away. Sunlight rays diverging is impossible at that distance, the only way that can happen is if the sun is close above the clouds. This has nothing to do with the exact distances, we're talking about it being very close or very far and it's obviously not very far.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
You know what, now's a perfect time to do another Scientific Method example. And this time I'll use the Scientific Method @Subduction Zone wanted me to use in post #256

Ask a Question
Is the Solar System model accurate?

Do Background Research
According to NASA, The Sun is 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth and 93 Million Miles away.

Construct a Hypothesis
If the Sun is really that far away then sunlight should be parallel when it passes through the clouds due to the distance.

Test with an Experiment
Every photo of sunlight traveling though the clouds spreads out. This shouldn't be possible if the Sun were really 93 million miles away.

main-qimg-d93f005be8d8548380ef061d09253f8d-c

Oopsie. You goofed. Crepuscular rays are well understood. You know how Flat Earthers are always shouting "perspective"? Well this is an actual incidence of perspective. Those rays are parallel. You are seeing a combination of foreshortening and perspective. We can see those from space, but from space one can see that they are still parallel:
Crepuscular-Rays-seen-from-space.jpg

Oops, almost forgot a link to an article that you should have looked up:

Crepuscular rays | atmospheric phenomenon
Is the Procedure Working?
Yes, I conducted a small scale experiment to confirm the property of light. When the light source is close, it diverges from the source. When it's very far away, the light is parallel.

maxresdefault.jpg


Analyze Data and Draw Conclusions.
The photos match the close light source experiment which means the Sun is a local light source. There are no instances where light traveling through clouds does not diverge. This means the sun is close above the clouds. This also means that there's no way the sun is 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth.

No, again you made a mistake. The observer is not observing from the same angle, the Sun is not shining from the same angle. Your experiment does not match reality.

Do Results align with Hypothesis?
No, according to the small scale model, properties of light, and laws of physics that aren't theories, there's absolutely no way the solar system model is true.

Oh my. If anything theories outrank laws in the sciences. Sadly your experiment is a failure. Again.

Communicate Results
This debunks the Solar System model. If the sun is as close as this experiment shows then the sun is also not 1,287,000 times bigger than Earth. This means we don't orbit the Sun and that gravity doesn't work the way scientists claim it does. If so then the Sun is orbiting us. This now draws the question on what are the planets orbiting if not the sun? This also means that the temperature of the sun is also not as hot as the scientists claim because the sun being so close and so hot would have killed us by now. Overall, either NASA is not good at their job or they have been purposely lying to us this entire time. Regardless their data and claims should not be taken seriously from here on out. They are not a trustworthy source of information and new independent research should be done to determine the true nature of Earth, the Sun, the moon, the stars and the planets.

Yes and now you have communicated and now you know your errors. That means that you need to go back to the drawing board. But it is nice to see you trying. You did not debunk the Solar System model. And you really should have known better. But maybe next time.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: sjastro
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Funny how you're making your entire argument based on one photograph, while you dismiss millions upon millions of photographs that prove you wrong.
Plus his methodology failed and if he had done his background research he would have known of that crepuscular rays were already well understood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

coffee4u

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,002
2,819
Australia
✟174,175.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"I'm sure you are set on you're doctrine, but I'd like to ask, where do you think God is[by this I meant location of habitation]? Do you think we're on a big ball moving through an endless space, heading towards a black hole in the center of a barred spiral galaxy, like the rest of what science says? capable of being pelted by asteroids every 5-10 years, or in danger of a catastrophic weather meltdown, at the complete whim of nature? or do you believe something in the middle? and lastly, is their biblical evidence, for the things that you believe, like there is for me? (of which I know you do not agree, but I've yet to be convinced)"

Here you go. All ears, but please know that I've been meaning to drop this post once I am done hearing from topher. I've expressly stated it before. Thank you, and excited to hear what you have to say.

For something to be Biblical doctrine, you need clear supporting scripture and I do not see them. Since I believe in Sola Scriptura I would be the first to seriously look and consider them. All I have been shown previously were verses about circles, pillars and corners. You cannot build an entire doctrine about a flat earth covered by a dome based on that. Poetry can certainly be used as a supporting scripture but we can't build doctrine from poetry alone because if we could I could say that trees have hands when we know that is only poetic language about leaves.

Now the same can be said of the globe model, again there is no direct supporting scripture. The verses we do have mention a circle, but both flat disks and globes look like a circle from a distance as post #384 shows.

As for science, I believe that should fit the Biblical framework and should be observable and repeatable. If science goes outside of the Biblical framework I believe it is coming to the wrong conclusions because the creation of the earth was a miraculous event and missing variables will skew results.

Since the earth being a globe does not contradict scripture, does not affect any doctrine, since science experiments on it can be observed and repeated and since I can't see any reason for space pictures to be some kind of hoax (that would be very expensive for what purpose?) Governments don't spend that amount of cash for giggles. Then yes I do believe the world is a globe. This is not something I spend much time thinking on because it doesn't affect my life or my faith. God could have made the world a triangular prism is he had so wanted.

"where do you think God is"
God is spirit, he is everywhere. His realm is the spiritual. I do not believe we can understand this until we get there.

Do you think we're on a big ball moving through an endless space, heading towards a black hole in the center of a barred spiral galaxy, like the rest of what science says?

A ball suspended and moving in space, yes. "he suspends the earth over nothing." Towards a black hole, no. God holds all things together and scripture indicates the end will be by fire not by a black hole. I'm a creationist not an evolutionist.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

"in danger of a catastrophic weather meltdown, at the complete whim of nature?"

The world is both cursed, and groaning from man's sin.
Romans 8:22
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

This can only get worse, especially as mankind has failed in being the earths caretaker. Just like this virus has been linked to man's misuse of nature so pollution also affects the earth. Sin always has repercussions. How exactly God plans to burn it up I don't know, only that it will be remade into the New Heaven and New World.
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Then I think we will know all things. :)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: prodromos
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

Oopsie. You goofed. Crepuscular rays are well understood. You know how Flat Earthers are always shouting "perspective"? Well this is an actual incidence of perspective. Those rays are parallel. You are seeing a combination of foreshortening and perspective. We can see those from space, but from space one can see that they are still parallel:
Crepuscular-Rays-seen-from-space.jpg
You guys aren't even trying anymore lol. Lets get back to observable reality and not some "satellite" image from the same liars at NASA or Google who is also in the satanic agenda. Explain sunlight divergence from the ground perspective.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
You guys aren't even trying anymore lol. Lets get back to observable reality and not some "satellite" image from the same liars at NASA or Google who is also in the satanic agenda. Explain sunlight divergence from the ground perspective.
Nope, sorry, you don't get to reject satellites. They are evidence.

And once again the rays only appear to diverge. Do you remember the example of the railroad tracks? This is the same thing. The effect is greater because the distances are much greater. And did you follow the link to the article? I was a little late in getting it in there.
 
Upvote 0

Kinable

Word of Wisdom
Apr 12, 2020
120
106
31
Nevada
✟3,532.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Nope, sorry, you don't get to reject satellites. They are evidence.

And once again the rays only appear to diverge. Do you remember the example of the railroad tracks? This is the same thing. The effect is greater because the distances are much greater. And did you follow the link to the article? I was a little late in getting it in there.
That's wrong because the light would be coming straight down and not at an angle. The liniar perspective you're talking about, even if this was the case the divergence would not be that extreme. The light would still appear parallel like telephone poles, those don't bend or diverge from the focal point because they're at a 90 degree angle. The only way sunlight could diverge is if the sun was close, your confirmation bias is preventing you from accepting this, at this point you're literally denying observable reality because real life isn't aligning with your beliefs.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
That's wrong because the light would be coming straight down and not at an angle. The liniar perspective you're talking about, even if this was the case the divergence would not be that extreme. The light would still appear parallel like telephone poles, those don't bend or diverge from the focal point because they're at a 90 degree angle. The only way sunlight could diverge is if the sun was close, your confirmation bias is preventing you from accepting this, at this point you're literally denying observable reality because real life isn't aligning with your beliefs.
No, it wouldn't. Crepuscular rays only occur when the Sun is at a rather low angle. Crepuscular rays do not form when the Sun is overhead. That should tell you something.

In fact in your failed test you used the Sun straight overhead. That is not where the Sun is when crepuscular rays are formed.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Hey, look at this:

1280px-Anticrepuscular_Rays.jpg


Turns out that you're both wrong. The sun is really under the ground!

Or maybe it's just an optical illusion...
The Sun is at a very low angle there. It has gone negative.

By the way, that is something that the Flat Earth model cannot explain. In their model the Sun is always "up".
 
Upvote 0