Earth is Flat

[Freodin]

Lets see your map of the world. No good mate, it's horribly distorted, nothing is the right size or in the right place. That's what happens when you try to wrap a flat map around a ball.

That's... not quite correct. Not quite wrong either.

You cannot project a spherical object onto a flat plane without distortions. Yet there are a lot of different projection methods, and all have different distortions. Even different types of distortions, regarding size, length and direction.
Yet if you know these distortions - and also where no distortions are - you can align them with observations on the real world... and strangely they all fit.

And, yes, there is a "map" of the round earth. It is called "a globe". Displayes everything quite fine and dandy, right size and right place. The problem of globes over maps isn't accuracy... it's practicality.

 

[Kinable]

But you never tried to explain how equatorial telescope mounts work on a flat Earth.

It's not something I cared to research. I have no intention knowing or explaining literally every aspect on how Flat Earth works. I wasn't expecting to be debating this topic against non-Christians, that wasn't the point of why I made this thread. As far as I know it's dead, I'm sure there's plenty of other flat earthers or flat earth websites who can explain that to you. Good day

 

[Freodin]

I just noticed, why am I even debating against an atheist and agnostic? This thread died when the mods moved it here. That explains the confirmation bias, I was really hoping I would only be talking to Christians on this topic. Oh well, I'm done here. I've said all I needed to say on this topic and provided more than enough proof why the earth is not a sphere. I have no interest in debating flat earth with non-Christians, been there done that, it's a debate that never ends.

There have been several Christians here who were telling you exactly the same things as we do. The shape of the earth is a purely secular problem, not one of "faith."

But it is nice to see that Flerfs are still able to evade a discussion based on facts when they invoke their "religion".

 

[pitabread]

As far as I know it's dead, I'm sure there's plenty of other flat earthers or flat earth websites who can explain that to you.

There aren't. I've looked.

The only attempt I've seen was a video which claimed the night sky is projected onto a magic salad bowl that somehow rotates when you travel north to south, and then magically flips over when you cross the equator.

It didn't make any sense.

Until a Flat Earther can offer up a cogent explanation for how equatorial telescope mounts work, I'll stick with traditional cosmology thanks. It works just fine.

 

[topher694]

I just noticed, why am I even debating against an atheist and agnostic? This thread died when the mods moved it here. That explains the confirmation bias, I was really hoping I would only be talking to Christians on this topic. Oh well, I'm done here. I've said all I needed to say on this topic and provided more than enough proof why the earth is not a sphere. I have no interest in debating flat earth with non-Christians, been there done that, it's a debate that never ends.

Seems to me you've ignored the Christian side of this discussion just fine all on your own.

 

[Kinable]

There have been several Christians here who were telling you exactly the same things as we do. The shape of the earth is a purely secular problem, not one of "faith."

But it is nice to see that Flerfs are still able to evade a discussion based on facts when they invoke their "religion".

As I said before, I was a flat earther before becoming christian. I'm not evading discussion, this thread was meant to explain flat earth to Christians. In my OP I used scriptures from Genesis to paint a picture of how earth was created based on the first chapter of the bible. I showed why the governments promote globe earth and why it's satanic. I showed examples debunking globe earth enough to get Christians to think about their beliefs. That was the purpose of this thread, not to debate about EVERY SINGLE DETAIL about why earth is flat. As far as I know my job is done, I have no further interest in debate.

You guys are laughing at me for not answering the telescope question yet you give the same "earth is too big" excuse about why no one has proven gravity is determined by an objects mass. We've reached the point all flat/sphere earth debates reach in the end.

 

[Strathos]

I just noticed, why am I even debating against an atheist and agnostic? This thread died when the mods moved it here. That explains the confirmation bias, I was really hoping I would only be talking to Christians on this topic. Oh well, I'm done here. I've said all I needed to say on this topic and provided more than enough proof why the earth is not a sphere. I have no interest in debating flat earth with non-Christians, been there done that, it's a debate that never ends.

Hey. Christian here.

I'll debate you. How about you start by addressing my argument in post #51?

It may be a little difficult though, as AFAIK there are no youtube videos or meme images that exist to address this argument.

 

[Strathos]

As I said before, I was a flat earther before becoming christian.

So that means that your argument that a flat earth would prove Christianity to everyone is wrong, if there can be non-Christian flat earthers. Again, most ineffective conspiracy ever.

 

[Freodin]

You guys are laughing at me for not answering the telescope question yet you give the same "earth is too big" excuse about why no one has proven gravity is determined by an objects mass. We've reached the point all flat/sphere earth debates reach in the end.

If you don't listen to others... how can you demand others listen to you?

Consider what "earth is too big" is an excuse for. Why no one has proven gravity?

Well, is quite a good excuse why the proposed Flat Earther experiments do not work. But do they listen? Do they try to understand? Do they look at the alternatives?
No. They don't.

And if they don't listen - show that they don't WANT to listen... why should anyone take them serious?

So, here again, explicitly, just for you, the problem and the solution.

"Water sticking to a ball due to gravity".
Consider: the strength of gravity is based on the masses of the involved objects.
Consider the mass of the water you want to stick to the ball. Consider the mass of the ball. How big is it? 1kg each? 10? A really big an heavy ball and lots of water? 100kg? A ton?
And in each of these cases, you still have another object involved that excerts force on both water and ball: the earth. With a mass of (roughly) 6 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 kg.
So, there is the "excuse". The force attracting one tone of water to a one ton ball would still be overwhelmed by the vastly greater force of the earth attracting both.

Now what is the solution?
Try to observe a force that is not influenced by the gravity of the earth. This force is always straight "down"... so try to observe a force perpendicular to that.
And now look up the Cavendish experiment... and the many many many times it has been repeated and confirmed.

 

[sjastro]

On the subject of equatorial mounts I posed the same question in another flat Earth thread.

Since you are an "authority" on the subject explain why the angle of the polar axis of an equatorial mount should vary depending on the location on a flat Earth.
Also explain if the Earth is flat, why does the mount's declination reading of an object at the zenith correspond exactly to the latitude on the Earth's surface where the observation is made.

The typical FE response was as follows:
https://ifasgallery.ifas.ufl.edu/entnem/walker/buzz/585sss.wav

 

[Kinable]

There are over 2 billion Christians in the world today, and easily over 99% of them don't have any problem with accepting that the earth is round. Not a very effective 'conspiracy'.

Um, it seems pretty effective to me don't you think? If you can get 99% of Christians to deny the first chapter of the bible using brainwashing controlling the media (Check post #2) after a century of movies, stories, shows, games, etc, then it's pretty damn effective. So are you telling me something like Rick and Morty or Star Trek are possible? Tell a lie long enough and everyone will believe it.

Are you telling me Dinosaurs also existed and evolution is real despite not being biblical? When you understand how the world and entertainment media is run you'll see how and why they lie. I believed all of that thanks to growing up with all the movies, shows and games I did.

 

[Freodin]

Um, it seems pretty effective to me don't you think? If you can get 99% of Christians to deny the first chapter of the bible using brainwashing controlling the media (Check post #2) after a century of movies, stories, shows, games, etc, then it's pretty damn effective. So are you telling me something like Rick and Morty or Star Trek are possible? Tell a lie long enough and everyone will believe it.

Are you telling me Dinosaurs also existed and evolution is real despite not being biblical? When you understand how the world and entertainment media is run you'll see how and why they lie. I believed all of that thanks to growing up with all the movies, shows and games I did.

Pst... the concept of the globe earth is more or less 2,500 years old. Lots of media brainwashing back then.

Seriously... show some minuscule shred of understanding about what you are attacking... else no one will take you serious.

Rick and Morty and Star Trek is FICTION. If you cannot distinguish fiction from reality... how do you propose to educate people about a story?

 

[Freodin]

So that means that your argument that a flat earth would prove Christianity to everyone is wrong, if there can be non-Christian flat earthers. Again, most ineffective conspiracy ever.

He did not understand your point. And such a simple point it is. What a shame.

See, Kinable... if the intention of the conspiracy is the keep people from believing in God, and billions of people believe in God, Jesus, sin, salvation, resurrection, eternal life, heaven and hell... AND a globe earth... then this conspiracy is not very efficient, is it?

 

[topher694]

Um, it seems pretty effective to me don't you think? If you can get 99% of Christians to deny the first chapter of the bible using brainwashing controlling the media (Check post #2) after a century of movies, stories, shows, games, etc, then it's pretty damn effective. So are you telling me something like Rick and Morty or Star Trek are possible? Tell a lie long enough and everyone will believe it.

Are you telling me Dinosaurs also existed and evolution is real despite not being biblical? When you understand how the world and entertainment media is run you'll see how and why they lie. I believed all of that thanks to growing up with all the movies, shows and games I did.

THAT is your takeaway from his post? Complete with more deceptive tactics.

 

[Strathos]

Um, it seems pretty effective to me don't you think? If you can get 99% of Christians to deny the first chapter of the bible using brainwashing controlling the media (Check post #2) after a century of movies, stories, shows, games, etc, then it's pretty damn effective. So are you telling me something like Rick and Morty or Star Trek are possible? Tell a lie long enough and everyone will believe it.

Are you telling me Dinosaurs also existed and evolution is real despite not being biblical? When you understand how the world and entertainment media is run you'll see how and why they lie. I believed all of that thanks to growing up with all the movies, shows and games I did.

One of the weakest rebuttals I've ever heard. None of those things undermine the fundamentals of Christianity. Finding the body of Jesus Christ? That would be the best possible argument against our faith. As has been pointed out, it's been known that the earth is round for over 2500 years. If this conspiracy stretches back so far, how come they have never tried the simple idea to fake His body?

Also, if you want to talk about media, maybe you should try reading some of the early science fiction stories from the late 19th and early 20th centuries. You'll notice something about them: They almost all have life on Mars, Venus, even Mercury and Jupiter. Every planet in the solar system was filled with little green men back then - and you know why? Because it was actually considered plausible at the time. They didn't have satellites or space probes, and the telescopes they had were far inferior to what we have today. Some scientists even claimed they saw 'canals' on Mars, showing evidence of engineering.

But then we actually explored the solar system, and guess what we found:

- Mars: Lifeless ball of dust
- Venus: Lifeless ball of superheated poisonous gas and corrosive acid
- Mercury: Lifeless ball of rock, burning on one side and freezing on the other
- Jupiter and co: Lifeless balls of gas with no surface

Everywhere scientists have looked, they haven't found as much as a microbe living anywhere other than earth.

That doesn't exactly fit the whole narrative of trying to convince everyone that space is full of extraterrestrials, does it? In fact, you'd almost think it supports the idea that there is something unique about earth... which fits the Bible. Imagine that.

 

[Strathos]

And another angle - there are lots of conspiracy theorists out there who accuse NASA of hiding evidence of alien life. For example, the infamous 'face on Mars' which was photographed by the Viking orbiter. People kept making such a big deal out of it, saying it was proof of alien life, while all the while NASA said it was just a trick of the light. They even took a much closer and more accurate photograph of it in 1998, just to prove the conspiracy theorists wrong. And they were right - it was a natural formation.

Hardly sounds like a conspiracy to convince everyone that space is full of aliens, huh?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lets be honest, even if I did explain, your confirmation bias would immediately reject it because your mind is already made up about the shape of the earth. I try not to debate against people with a confirmation bias because it never ends, you're not open to even the slightest possibility that the Earth is not a sphere in space so why bother.

The truth is that we aren't entirely sure how the Earth works yet because not enough people do research on the subject and true flat earth theory is really hard to find. When you search flat earth you get 98% results trying to debunk it using globe earth science. Obviously a flat earth wouldn't work in the big bang theory model of the universe. When an object like the sun gets far enough away it gets closer and closer to the vanishing point horizon. For all I know the sun might be above the firmament and thus it acts like a lens similar to the globe earth atmosphere. Everything is pretty self explanatory tbh.

You are projecting, and you probably have no explanation.

This is how science is done. You need a model and you need not only to be able to explain it, you need to say what reasonable test could possibly refute it. If you cannot do that by definition you have no evidence for your beliefs.

And we do know enough about the Earth. It has been known to be roughly spherical for over 2,000 year. You may not know enough, and again that is projecting on your part when you assume that because you cannot understand others cannot understand either. And those pictures from space, They are real. Again, all of the evidence supports those on the side of reality, none of it supports you.

 

[Kinable]

when you understand how the world and entertainment media is run you'll see how and why they lie.

If you guys aren't going to bother watching the video in post #2 don't bother responding. It explains WHY THEY LIE, when you see who runs the world and controls the media and history and everything you can't trust anything from them. Telling me "Oh but over a hundred years ago" even History is false. Like I said, this thread is dead. I know Rick and Morty and Star Trek are fiction but I'm saying is it possible the stuff they do? Maybe not rick and morty but what about Star Trek? Are you forgetting SCIENCE fiction? If you believe in space and the big bang theory wouldn't you say if technology advances far enough we can do what they do in those shows? I'm getting a headache now, I hate that I have to explain literally everything because you guys don't understand the point of anything I try to say, you're taking everything I say at face value. It's fine though, once the world ends in less than 15 years or so we'll see what earth really is. I'll be waiting for you (well the Christians at least) then and we can see.

 

[pitabread]

It explains WHY THEY LIE, when you see who runs the world and controls the media and history and everything you can't trust anything from them. Telling me "Oh but over a hundred years ago" even History is false.

If you're just going to try to gaslight everyone, why should we trust anything you are telling us? What if Flat Earth is really the conspiracy and you're trying to mislead everyone as part of an even more sinister plot? Why should anyone believe you?

It's fine though, once the world ends in less than 15 years or so we'll see what earth really is.

Funny, I heard about how the world was supposed to end in less than 15 years over 15 years ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I just noticed, why am I even debating against an atheist and agnostic? This thread died when the mods moved it here. That explains the confirmation bias, I was really hoping I would only be talking to Christians on this topic. Oh well, I'm done here. I've said all I needed to say on this topic and provided more than enough proof why the earth is not a sphere. I have no interest in debating flat earth with non-Christians, been there done that, it's a debate that never ends.

Seriously, the claims of "confirmation bias" are against the rules if you cannot support them.

 

[Strathos]

If you guys aren't going to bother watching the video in post #2 don't bother responding. It explains WHY THEY LIE, when you see who runs the world and controls the media and history and everything you can't trust anything from them. Telling me "Oh but over a hundred years ago" even History is false. Like I said, this thread is dead. I know Rick and Morty and Star Trek are fiction but I'm saying is it possible the stuff they do? Maybe not rick and morty but what about Star Trek? Are you forgetting SCIENCE fiction? If you believe in space and the big bang theory wouldn't you say if technology advances far enough we can do what they do in those shows? I'm getting a headache now, I hate that I have to explain literally everything because you guys don't understand the point of anything I try to say, you're taking everything I say at face value. It's fine though, once the world ends in less than 15 years or so we'll see what earth really is. I'll be waiting for you (well the Christians at least) then and we can see.

If there is a conspiracy so powerful it can control every nation and world leader and dictate the course of history, and its ultimate goal is to lead people away from Christ, why are they doing such a bad job of it?

And why don't they actually try the most effective and obvious thing they could do - produce a fake corpse of Jesus?