How Could God allow this?

[martymonster]

God did not CREATE evil---from your Isaiah verse.

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’

It is without His Light that darkness naturally exists.

God -"I form the light and create darkness. I create evil"

Jamesone5 - God does not create evil.

Dude, you are literally contradicting God.

 

[Jamesone5]

God -"I form the light and create darkness. I create evil"

Uh, no this verse or rendering of the verse is your own. A little creative Bible re-writing goin on?

Jamesone5 - God does not create evil.

Dude, you are literally contradicting God.

God -"I form the light and create darkness. I create evil"--martymonster

Uh, no this verse or rendering of the verse is your own. A little creative Bible re-writing goin on?

Let us look at your implications if it is true That God specifically created evil. I think you are missing the whole point.


Adam and Eve when they were both caught after they ate the forbidden fruit tried that angle with Eve blaming the serpent and Adam blaming the "woman you gave me". God banished them from the Garden and then Cain slew Abel and in his own evil, he realized that blaming God was not the answer---he simply asked "am I my brother's keeper?'

We can go with Job who had a lot of evil done to him in his life---yet he never blamed God for the "evil" of his calamites. You gonna go the way of Job OR blame God for creating the evil that befalls you?

 

[martymonster]

God -"I form the light and create darkness. I create evil"--martymonster

Uh, no this verse or rendering of the verse is your own. A little creative Bible re-writing goin on?

Let us look at your implications if it is true That God specifically created evil. I think you are missing the whole point.


Adam and Eve when they were both caught after they ate the forbidden fruit tried that angle with Eve blaming the serpent and Adam blaming the "woman you gave me". God banished them from the Garden and then Cain slew Abel and in his own evil, he realized that blaming God was not the answer---he simply asked "am I my brother's keeper?'

We can go with Job who had a lot of evil done to him in his life---yet he never blamed God for the "evil" of his calamites. You gonna go the way of Job OR blame God for creating the evil that befalls you?

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

 

[Jamesone5]

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

And where is the good coming from?
From the hand of God."good at the hand of God"

With the word "and" the verse goes on to make the clear distinction.

Evil is on its own and NOT from the hand of God so He hardly created it as you understand.


Choices [bad ones] is where that evil originates.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It is a sign of the end times and pestilences are included with earthquakes and rumours of wars. As his time of his final end approaches, the devil becomes more and more active in the world. His final act of desperation to defeat the second coming of Christ will be to try to destroy Israel in one last great battle where he will gather all the armies of the world against Israel, but before he can complete his purpose, Jesus will arrive and intervene, defeating the Antichrist, and setting up His kingdom in Jerusalem on the throne of David.

 

[martymonster]

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

And where is the good coming from?
From the hand of God."good at the hand of God"

With the word "and" the verse goes on to make the clear distinction.

Evil is on its own and NOT from the hand of God so He hardly created it as you understand.


Choices [bad ones] is where that evil originates.

What are you talking about? This verse is clear that the good and the evil come from the hand of God. It then goes on to say that Job did not sin by saying this. You really have no wiggle room here.

 

[Idromos247]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

In my eyes it has always been very simple... We (as Adam's race) spat in the face of god and pretty much gave him the finger. Any form of destruction that came upon us would be fair in my eyes. What does god owe us really? Nothing. So the simple fact he always some of us to even see heaven is good enough for me.

The world will burn and it is well deserved.

 

[Religiot]

Then you are misunderstanding them if you think God does evil. God says he hates lying for example, do you think God causes what he hates?

Brother, you are the one who seems to misunderstand the Lord: please consider the following, and see if you can explain it to fit your conceptions of God.

"And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth–gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." --1 Kings 22:19-23

 

[Strong in Him]

Not refuting anything, only trying to give a full picture. Yes, this Covid 19 came from God, but not that we would perish but that all might be saved.

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights who does not change like the shifting shadows", James 1:17

Is the Corona virus a good and perfect gift?
Well it's not from God then; it's from the thief who came to kill and destroy, John 10:10

 

[mindlight]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Genesis 1 : This virus is not good, it kills the life it uses to replicate itself. Therefore God did not make this virus in its current form.

This virus like all viruses is a product of the fall and the curse on creation that allowed natural processes that were essentially good to change in directions that God had not intended for them in the pre Fall world. Therefore SARS-COV-2 is a product of a broken creation.

God is however managing the conseqences of this virus according to his will and purpose. There are clear winners and losers from the viruses impact.

China is up and the USA and Western Europe (with the possible exception of Germany) is down

The environment is cleaner as a result in a rebuke for our abuse of the planet and fossil fuel producers are among the biggest losers from this Pandemic

Health care is now a bigger priority than the economy

 

[Jamesone5]

What are you talking about? This verse is clear that the good and the evil come from the hand of God. It then goes on to say that Job did not sin by saying this. You really have no wiggle room here.

shall we receive good at the hand of God,

and
shall we not receive evil?

Where is the hand of God in the second part of Job's statement? the Translators even provided a comma btw.




Obviously you do not know what these terms mean


Exegesis and eisegesis

 

[mindlight]

So you would go to a funeral of a child that died from cancer and tell the parents that their kid died for the greater good?

I think the answer to this question would be a great comfort to all of us, and I have shared it with people at a funeral.

It is hard to attend any funeral in the present circumstances. But removing a genetically flawed creature to be with God is only horrible in the longest term perspective for the parents who lose a child. Who knows the future suffering would have resulted had that child lived and had children of its own. Sometimes a short pain than a generational problem. In the presence of God however that child is fully healthy and content

 

[mindlight]

We are a very weak generation. Most in the past have seen calamities far worse. We question why God allows such things to happen but in retrospect we should ask why we allow things to happen. God has given us free will. What we do with that gift is up to each and every one of us.
Blessings

Agreed I was reading through a UK report of who was dying. Most were fat, old with underlying conditions. As a statistical group and allowing for outliers it appears God is purging a people that has really let itself go. As in the physical realm so also in the spiritual.

 

[mindlight]

From a software engineer's point of view:
Engineers design things that try to simplify things, make things easier. Usually those are repeated things.
However we are now trying to design things that can evolve and fix issues that are not designed for.
The smarter the designer, the better his design can handle exceptions. But even our best designs are not live, they can't exceed our design specifications (i.e. think for themselves).

God made the best design, something that are self aware and can think for themselves, which is all living things (humans and animals, we can do it better). When we are first created we are good. But God also give us the capacity to do what ever we want, because we are a better design, not like machines. God also give us law (don't eat from the tree of knowledge).

So God is good, God created good things. But the things He created is so "good" that they are capable of disobey God's command, to create a big show for all to see. And that is why we call history His-Story, it is all a story, for all to see, for the good of the believers.

Yes God designed perfect creatures in a perfect eco system but gave these creature freewill. Our sins broke ourselves and the world and changed processes designed to test and affirm our design into malicious and dangerous viruses for example.

 

[mindlight]

Remember God created Lucifer, He didn't create Satan. Does that help?

Yes and he created viral processes designed to test and thereby affirm our immune systems in the context of a perfect eco system. Our freewill sinning brought a curse upon ourselves and upon creation and made what was good into something dangerous and fearful to us. Satan was meant to test us not to provoke our fall. He went too far.

 

[martymonster]

shall we receive good at the hand of God,

and
shall we not receive evil?

Where is the hand of God in the second part of Job's statement? the Translators even provided a comma btw.




Obviously you do not know what these terms mean


Exegesis and eisegesis

Well, here's some more of the word of God for you to add to and take away from.

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

 

[Aussie Pete]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

It's really not that hard. God created man neutral. He gave man a choice. One very simple command. Adam chose to disobey. Exactly what God warned Adam about came to pass. Creating a being with free will allows for the possibility that the being will choose the wrong way.

Giving the being the ability to choose is not the source of evil. It was Adam's choice. It was Lucifer's choice prior to Adam. Lucifer, the Light bearer, became Satan, the Adversary. Yes, God foresaw this. No, that does not make Him responsible. Evil is not a "thing" that is created. It something that a being with free will can decide to become.

 

[Arc F1]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

This life is a test of one's worth. You seek answers as to why but we don't have the understanding of God. The devil once tried to be like God in all his wisdom and it cost him his position in heaven. We don't need to know why. Part of the test is obedience. To understand God's wisdom you would have to be at his level. Lucifer loves nothing more than for people to question why.

 

[Strong in Him]

Agreed I was reading through a UK report of who was dying. Most were fat, old with underlying conditions.

Not at all.
Children and teenagers have been infected, and some have died.

As a statistical group and allowing for outliers it appears God is purging a people that has really let itself go.

No.
Jesus died for sinners. I don't believe God has said, or ever would say, "some of you have let yourselves go and ruined your health; I am sending an illness that will finish you off."

As in the physical realm so also in the spiritual.

Are you saying that people who are overweight or physically ill are therefore bound to be spiritually unhealthy?
Evidence?

 

[Dave L]

Romans 5 does not state we are condemned for Adam's sin; rather, that since Adam, all have sinned.

Romans 5:12-14 (WEB)
12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned. 13 For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren’t like Adam’s disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come.

Therefore, ever since Adam, people have sinned, and by their own sins they die.

Romans 5:12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

Why did death pass to all men?
Answer: Because all sinned.

No Scripture states that we die for Adam's sin.

Paul clearly states that sin was in the world before any law was given, but when God made a Law that was not obeyed, such as not eating of the Tree of Knowledge, then that sin was counted against them.

Romans 5:13 (WEB)
13 For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law.

Therefore, ever since Adam (the first human to walk the earth), people have sinned, but that sin does not produce death until a Law is made showing us not to commit that sin.

Therefore the Law was given as our school master or tutor to show us our sins - we are then condemned by those sins because of the Law given - and then bring us to Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:24 (WEB)
24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But before any Law of God was given, God did not count any sin against them.

Acts 17:30 (WEB) 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent

But once the Law was given, Adam and all others after him, have broken God's Laws and are condemned for their own sins.

See also:

Romans 2:10-12 (WEB)
10 But glory, honor, and peace go to every man who does good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without the law will also perish without the law.
As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Romans 7:7-8 (WEB)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! However, I wouldn’t have known sin, except through the law. For I wouldn’t have known coveting, unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” [Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21] 8 But sin, finding occasion through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of coveting. For apart from the law, sin is dead.

Blessings

It says all were constituted, sinners. Adam flunked the test and proved we are a corrupt species.