Will you choose life and vote for Trump?

Who will you vote for in the 2020 Presidential Election?

  • Trump

  • Biden

  • Other

  • I won't vote


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JackRT

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You think I have to support abortion in minimal circumstances, or else I'm not pro-life?

If you don't support any measure that will lead to a reduction in the abortion rate then you are not pro-life because in the meantime you can still work towards a complete ban. But there are many countries that do have complete bans where the illegal rate is incredibly high.
 
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Albion

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If you don't support any measure that will lead to a reduction in the abortion rate then you are not pro-life because in the meantime you can still work towards a complete ban. But there are many countries that do have complete bans where the illegal rate is incredibly high.
It looks like the point now is getting to be to paint pro-lifers as dumbbells or hypocrites rather than to go right at the issues themselves.

So, okay, some pro-lifers want an all-or nothing ban on abortion except perhaps in the case of saving the life of the mother, while others favor a step-by-step approach to legislation, gradually working towards the ideal situation.

There is nothing peculiar or stupid about either of those approaches...and nothing about them that calls into question the sincerity of the pro-life person on either of those sides.
 
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Big Boo

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But there are many countries that do have complete bans where the illegal rate is incredibly high.

If obtaining or procuring an abortion were punished with a sentence of 40 years to life, as it should be, then those countries wouldn't have high illegal abortion rates.
 
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childeye 2

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"Coming to an understanding," although an admirable goal, isn't what I was addressing there.
Then by all means please rephrase.


You were imputing to him the usual liberal misreading of his remarks.
I don't find it necessary to draw a distinction between a liberal or conservative misreading of his remarks. If it's misread it's simply misread. The very existence of adding liberal or conservative as an adjective indicates subterfuge working in the brain. Which causes me to think this is one of those moments where you're going to try and tell me I didn't hear what I think I heard.

DONALD TRUMP: When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically.

The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.
 
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Albion

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I don't find it necessary to draw a distinction between a liberal or conservative misreading of his remarks. If it's misread it's misread.
The very existence of adding liberal or conservative as an adjective indicates subterfuge working in the brain.
I disagree with that because what was said IS, in fact, what one political faction has made one of its stock in trade arguments when it comes to this particular issue. Merely to have noted that truth doesn't seem out of line.

Is this one of those moments where you're going to try and tell me I didn't hear what I think I heard?

As I said before--and you virtually affirmed it by admitting it was a matter of perceived meaning--you inferred something. We simply pointed out that you were incorrect when doing that.

And now that we have the famous wording in front of us, it is patently obvious that he was not indicting all immigrants or all Mexicans.

He was, instead, speaking there of the criminal element that would come along amidst the many other people he went out of his way to identify as "good people."

You are repeating one of the early smears used by people who were campaigning against Trump. I have to wonder if you are not simply picking up what they said was Trump's meaning and repeating it.

DONALD TRUMP: When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically.
The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.
 
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childeye 2

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Tell you what. Suppose you post the actual quote of what President Trump said, what he actually said, which has you all upset here.
DONALD TRUMP: When do we beat Mexico at the border?
They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity.
And now they are beating us economically.
They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically.


The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest.
When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you.
They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us.
They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.


But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.
And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense.
They’re sending us not the right people.
 
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RDKirk

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Seventy percent of abortions in the US are by Christians.

If Christians were really that serious about stopping abortions...

...we would just stop having them. Or we would seriously study the reasons Christians wind up making that choice or even finding themselves on the path too that choice.

But instead, we are doing precisely what Paul told us not to do, going to Caesar to resolve an internal problems.
 
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Albion

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Seventy percent of abortions in the US are by Christians.

If Christians were really that serious about stopping abortions...

...we would just stop having them.
True or not, that's not the issue.

But instead, we are doing precisely what Paul told us not to do, going to Caesar to resolve an internal problems.

The reason that's wrong is two-fold. First, there are quite a few residents of this country who are not Christians and, second, it wouldn't do the aborted infants any good merely to urge people to do what is right.
 
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childeye 2

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I disagree with that because what was said IS, in fact, what one political faction has made one of its stock in trade arguments when it comes to this particular issue. Merely to have noted that truth doesn't seem out of line.
Please consider that you're telling me that you think I have a "liberal" misreading. This implies that it's aligned in some way with a bias, as opposed to a simple misunderstanding. Would it have changed your inference to have just said I am misreading/misunderstanding what Trump said without the liberal slant applied? If not then why use it? If so, then your inference was based on a bias of your own, which you projected onto me which indicates subterfuge is active either implicitly or explicitly.
As I said before--and you virtually affirmed it--you interpreted his wording. We simply pointed out that you mistook what he was saying for something else.
We're all interpreting his words when he speaks. The question is what interpretation is the more accurate as to what he means (the sentiments behind the words). You're not simply conveying to me that I simply mistook what he is saying when you use adjectives such as liberal to describe the mistake.

And now that we have the famous wording in front of us, it is patently obvious that he was not indicting all immigrants or all Mexicans.
Oh of course not since he clearly said "and some, I assume, are good people". However, that's not a definitive remark which suggests to the mind that it's probable/possible they're not 100% all bad. But objectively speaking the far greater majority of sentiment is decidedly definitive that they are indeed sending the bad people intentionally, wherefore they are laughing at our stupidity.

He was, instead, speaking there of the criminal element that would come along amidst the many other people he went out of his way to identify as "good people."
Let me be clear, he meant "I assume some are good people" as an exception to the rule. He did not identify any people "definitively" as good people. I Also look at the context. It's obvious to me that the more time Trump would spend definitively commending the good people that Mexico is sending, the lesser the implication becomes that Mexico is our enemy who is laughing at us over beating us at the border.

You are repeating one of the early smears used by people who were campaigning against Trump. I have to wonder if you are not simply picking up what they said was Trump's meaning and repeating it.
I see Trump intentionally denouncing Mexico with innuendo and insinuation. Until there's proof that Mexico finds it's bad people and sends them over here with the exception of the some they got wrong, I'm not believing what he says. I'm doing the right thing by loving others as I would want to be loved. It has nothing to do with liberal/conservative.
 
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RDKirk

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True or not, that's not the issue.



The reason that's wrong is two-fold. First, there are quite a few residents of this country who are not Christians and, second, it wouldn't do the aborted infants any good merely to urge people to do what is right.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. -- Hebrews 11

The Body of Christ has absolutely no mission to make pagans act like Christians. That is a useless and fruitless activity. It's a waste of the Lord's resources.

Our mission is to preach the gospel, and that will bring some into obedience to the Lord.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hellfire.
-- Mathew 10

The babies are not in danger of being destroyed body and soul in hellfire. Frankly, they are not the ones in the greater danger. Those in greater danger of being destroyed body and soul in hellfire are the mothers and doctors. They are the ones we should fear for.
 
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Albion

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The Body of Christ has absolutely no mission to make pagans act like Christians. That is a useless and fruitless activity. It's a waste of the Lord's resources.

That's not the point, however. It makes no sense to say that society can be a mess with crime and injustice run wild, but none of that should matter to us..."because we're Christians, don't you see?" :rolleyes:
 
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childeye 2

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There's no "behind the words." There is no reason to insist that what he said is not what he meant!
All words are vehicles to express a sentiment, hence there is always a sentiment behind the words. I never said nor implied he didn't mean what he says.

I notice there is no dispute over my interpretation that Trump is saying that Mexico is our enemy who is intentionally sending it's bad people such as rapists and drug dealers into America, (with the exception of some).
 
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Albion

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All words are vehicles to express a sentiment, hence there is always a sentiment behind the words.
"All words are vehicles to express a sentiment." Very well.

The words used as vehicles in this case do not say what you (and all the other people you don't want to be associated with) have claimed.

You said, "He has called immigrants criminals, drug dealers, and rapists...." which is incorrect. He clearly spoke of criminals who would come across the border along with other people he differentiated from those criminals.

The reprint you posted of the exact words that were spoken proves it. And that is all there is to this.
 
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tulc

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Some of the things Nietzsche said were true. But as a Christian I would never quote him because he hated God, as did Hitchens. It's not appropriate for Christians to quote people who hate God no matter astute, true, or witty their quotes are on certain subjects.
hmmmm...you seem to feel your opinion about something is the only right one. It's not. It is, again, simply your opinion, and you should feel free to pick it if you like. But as an aside? You might want to hold off on that whole "Christians shouldn't quote certain people" until you've told Paul the Apostle your opinion. Since he quoted several Greek playwrights and poets in his letters to various churches...the same letters that ended up in the Bible. Or to quote Saint Augustine:
“Nay, but let every good and true Christian understand that wherever truth may be found, it belongs to his Master…”
tulc(just a thought)
 
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timothyu

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I find his thinking to be shallow. And his sentiments indicate this.
That is what makes him so appealing to his followers. A politicians that talks and thinks just like them. No double speak.
 
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