If you can't re-marry then...

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Look, you're being purposely obtuse

obtsueness isn't the issue. the issue is neither of you understand the context or focus of hebrews 11:31.

 

[Isilwen]

obtsueness isn't the issue. the issue is neither of you understand the context or focus of hebrews 11:31.

I am saying the same for you, but I'm bowing out.

I'll see you in heaven.

 

[GenemZ]

You quoted it, but I interpreted it differently. I read it as everything it said and then a semi colon, a whole new sentence.. '; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.' Which is saying ;and whoever marries "a woman who is divorced' commits adultery, which is any woman who is divorced, "a" 'woman who is divorced' ". Are you sure you're correct?

If you do not understand the circumstances that existed in legalism-driven Israel at the time Jesus spoke? You will be spinning in circles.

The divorce gimmick was used by husbands to get a "cheap and easy divorce." A kind of divorce that God did not recognize as legitimate. The only legitimate reason was if the wife was caught in infidelity. All other reasons? Was not legit. So? Any woman who was wrongly divorced, was still seen in Godf's eyes as being married to her husband (became one flesh).

So, to marry such a wrongly a divorced woman (who in God's eyes was still married)? Was to commit adultery. For her new husband, according to God's perspective, would be having relations with another man's wife who was not legitimately divorced.

The religious leadership in Israel at that time had become horribly corrupt. Its why God let Rome over take Israel. And, its why they hated Jesus as they did. He brought the people back to what the Word of God actually teaches. They despised him. Just like Nancy Pelosi and Donald Schumer despise Donald Trump. For President Trump is exposing their racket and wants to bring it down. Just like with Jesus... all we get are lies and false accusations. Its a parallel. After all, the Bible is an expose on life and the nature of man.

 

[GenemZ]

where does it say she was commended for telling a lie.....or for being a harlot?

Telling a lie to save an innocent life is a virtue. Corrie Ten Boom lied when she hid Jews from the Nazis.

Rahab being a harlot was seen as just another job in her culture. But, after faith took hold of her, she ceased being a harlot.

Look at Mary the ex prostitute. She went to Jesus tomb and was the first to see him resurrected.

God redeems sinners.

 

[1213]

No, because that would mean that the second offense is adultery, and not fornication.

Again, that would make ongoing fornication impossible; it would have upgraded to ongoing adultery.

Sorry, I have understood that adultery is just one form of fornication. Fornication means all illegal ways of sex.

 

[blackhole]

Sorry, I have understood that adultery is just one form of fornication. Fornication means all illegal ways of sex.

No, because then including adultery in Gal 5:19 along with fornication is redundant.

 

[GenemZ]

No, because then including adultery in Gal 5:19 along with fornication is redundant.

There is a distinction there that you caught. It does not get explained very often as to why.

Adultery was commonly seen as sex between two adult persons - a man and a married woman, or visa versa. At least one had to be married. It could be both, as well.

Fornication was in reference to the pagan cultic practice of ritual sex. Fornication in the pagan temples were commonplace in the Roman Empire. Remember, Paul was the apostle to Gentiles. He was dealing with believers coming out of paganism that was often times involved in the phallic cults of the day.

Because some do not understand what Paul was dealing with (being an apostle to Gentiles)? Some misconstrue and assume Paul disliked sex. Paul had a tough job on his hands... He was dealing with a highly perverse and raunchy culture. Its why we read about the young man in Corinth having sex with his mother.

Sex with temple prostitutes (fornication) was seen by many ancient cults as being a part of one's religious obligation.

Yes... that's what Paul faced with Gentiles. Paul grew up as a Roman citizen and was accustomed to the ways of Rome.

 

[blackhole]

There is a distinction there that you caught. It does not get explained very often as to why.

Adultery was commonly seen as sex between two adult persons - a man and a married woman, or visa versa. At least one had to be married. It could be both, as well.

Fornication was in reference to the pagan cultic practice of ritual sex. Fornication in the pagan temples were commonplace in the Roman Empire. Remember, Paul was the apostle to Gentiles. He was dealing with believers coming out of paganism that was often times involved in the phallic cults of the day.

Because some do not understand what Paul was dealing with (being an apostle to Gentiles)? Some misconstrue and assume Paul disliked sex. Paul had a tough job on his hands... He was dealing with a highly perverse and raunchy culture. Its why we read about the young man in Corinth having sex with his mother.

Sex with temple prostitutes (fornication) was seen by many ancient cults as being a part of one's religious obligation.

Yes... that's what Paul faced with Gentiles. Paul grew up as a Roman citizen and was accustomed to the ways of Rome.

inappropriate contenteia did not (at least always) mean that when the Biblical writers used it. However, yes -- it did have that meaning prior to that point.

Comparing every reference in the Bible to inappropriate contenteia will show you that in many cases, it cannot mean that.

But for an etymology of inappropriate contenteia, see "inappropriate contenteia: The Making of a Christian Sexual Norm" by Klye Harper, 2011.

 

[GenemZ]

inappropriate contenteia did not (at least always) mean that when the Biblical writers used it. However, yes -- it did have that meaning prior to that point.

Comparing every reference in the Bible to inappropriate contenteia will show you that in many cases, it cannot mean that.

But for an etymology of inappropriate contenteia, see "inappropriate contenteia: The Making of a Christian Sexual Norm" by Klye Harper, 2011.

Excuse me, Blackhole... Why not give a synopsis of what Kyle Harper concluded? How can we have a dialog if I must order a book and then read it before I can respond?

My pastor was a dedicated Greek and Hebrew Scholar .. and an excellent historian... He went into deeper detail than I first gave.

Fornication was with temple prostitutes? Yes. Fornication. But, it involved inappropriate contenteia. Which would include sex with homosexual prostitutes, child prostitutes... and they even animals kept in the temple for the purpose of ritual sex for fulfilling their religious obligation.

Was that closer to what Klye Harper covered? Its what Paul was confronted by.

 

[blackhole]

Excuse me, Blackhole... Why not give a synopsis of what Kyle Harper concluded? How can we have a dialog if I must order a book and then read it before I can respond?

My first paragraph was a synopsis of his view.

 

[blackhole]

My pastor was a dedicated Greek and Hebrew Scholar .. and an excellent historian... He went into deeper detail than I first gave.

Fornication was with temple prostitutes? Yes. Fornication. But, it involved inappropriate contenteia. Which would include sex with homosexual prostitutes, child prostitutes... and they even animals kept in the temple for the purpose of ritual sex for fulfilling their religious obligation.

If we use your interpretation, then: Adultery (if it's not with temple prostitutes etc.) is not sufficient cause for divorce, Matt 5:23

1Co 5:1 doesn't involve sex with prostitutes or on behalf of a false religion.

1Co 7:2 doesn't work with that interpretation. Marrying a woman wouldn't deal with fornication; after all, he'd already have that woman (sexually) whether he married her or not. If having her sexually before marriage isn't sinful, this can't be about sex with prostitutes, etc.

 

[GenemZ]

If we use your interpretation, then: Adultery (if it's not with temple prostitutes etc.) is not sufficient cause for divorce, Matt 5:23

1Co 5:1 doesn't involve sex with prostitutes or on behalf of a false religion.

1Co 7:2 doesn't work with that interpretation. Marrying a woman wouldn't deal with fornication; after all, he'd already have that woman (sexually) whether he married her or not. If having her sexually before marriage isn't sinful, this can't be about sex with prostitutes, etc.

I was trying top broaden the definition. Yes..It can cover all sorts sexual impurity.

Yet, it was mostly used when addressing the Temple practice conditioning found amongst pagans in Roman cities.

Ephesus had some serious problems in this area. Not to mention "sin-city" for the Romans, Corinth.

For example:

Ephesians 5:4 (in the Greek) was inspired by the cultural norms of the pagan mentality people.

"Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient:
but rather giving of thanks."​

Foolish talking was dealing with a cultural norm. It was to speak jokingly as a means to arouse someone sexually.

Foolish jesting addressed the common practice of using tactile touching. A physical way of touching another (in a jesting way) as to arouse them physically.

The Gentiles before the Holy Spirit began to transform them lived in what was a socially acceptable raunchy, promiscuous atmosphere. Rome would be like walking into a gay bar for straight people. Bisexuality ran high in Rome. Today- Its what the new millennials are being demonically drawn into because the church has ceased producing salt teachings able to refute intelligently the lies that have been raised up to oppose the Bible.

Satan today wants to have a revival of the old Roman culture where he once thrived and who's thinking was appreciated. Its seen in our media every day in its desire to propagandize the youth into the regressive old ways, while calling it being progressive. Ignorance of history is allowing for bad history to repeat itself.

grace and peace....

 

[GenemZ]

1Co 7:2 doesn't work with that interpretation. Marrying a woman wouldn't deal with fornication; after all, he'd already have that woman (sexually) whether he married her or not. If having her sexually before marriage isn't sinful, this can't be about sex with prostitutes, etc.

Not quite right...

But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have
sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her
own husband. 1Co 7:2 ​

It was very easy to go to a pagan temple and perform sex with a prostitude of choice. It could be male, female, child, or animal. Remember! They thought nothing of it and was as common practice as someone going to McDonalds to get hamburger. That was why sexual promiscuity of jumping into the ally for a quickie was no big deal in their thinking, until they found regeneration and the indwelling Holy Spirit desiring to transform their inner man.They were growing into a new way of life unheard of before.

Now concerning the things
whereof you wrote unto me,
it is good for a man
"to not kindle a fire"/"to not sexually excite"
a woman . . . 2a~~
[me haptomai (present middle infinitive) gune]
through/"by means of" howbeit/moreover [dia de]
fornication/"sex in conjuction with religion. [inappropriate contenteia]​

...

 

[SkyWriting]

This is mostly Old Testament teaching by Jesus. Not part of the New Covenant. Divorce is not an option for a believer in the NT.

The New Covenant has nothing in writing to follow. Not one single word.

What Does the Bible Say About New Covenant?

 

[thelord's_pearl]

What really is sexual immorality: 'sexual intercourse' or 'making out' also? And how do you really know from the bible?

No one answered this question

 

[SkyWriting]

What really is sexual immorality: 'sexual intercourse' or 'making out' also? And how do you really know from the bible?

No one answered this question

Who ever knows the right thing to do, and does not do that thing,
then that is sin for them.
James 4:17

 

[Dave L]

The New Covenant has nothing in writing to follow. Not one single word.

What Does the Bible Say About New Covenant?

So you add to scripture by "winging it"? If it doesn't permit divorce (unforgiveness) do it anyway?

 

[NeedyFollower]

..are you allowed to have a new boyfriend/girlfriend? According to the Bible I know you can't re-marry.
Matthew 5:31-32
It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

I believe we often view things from a carnal /earthly /temporary perspective . In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like unto the angels . If we have have one Father ( as I believe we do ) then in eternity we will all be little children ..brothers and sisters . No carnal desires but a pure love which has nothing to do with sex . Love in this way . Pray for a spouse who has abandoned you or divorced you for love is eternal .
The posters which talk about allowed divorce according to earthly governments disregard Jesus words . Therefore what God has joined together let no man ( human) put asunder . Godly love is eternal for He does not even take pleasure in the death of the wicked but desires that all come to repentance . Should that not be my heart as well ?

 

[GenemZ]

The New Covenant has nothing in writing to follow. Not one single word.

What Does the Bible Say About New Covenant?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God
may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tm 3:16-17​

Paul famously referred and referenced OT Scriptures all the time. For , Paul said, all Scripture is God breathed....

...for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Even your link references Jeremiah and Exodus to make its point!

 

[GenemZ]

My first paragraph was a synopsis of his view.

Your first paragraph, where? You did not originate this thread. So? Where?