The 1000 years of Revelation 20 represents David to Christ ???
Just so that you can slot Satan's little season into the events of AD 70
Im sorry Claninja. I find that a novel and convoluted argument. 'Never heard it before.
So God will revive every one:
1. Whose Ancestry DNA test shows Jewishness;
or
2. Who adopts Babylonian Talmudism;
or
3. Who includes Jewish kosher in their diet.
So these are three additional alternative paths to God?
If I believe the sky is green and you believe it is blue, will you just telling me the sky is blue change my mind? No. But what if you found common ground with me. What if we agreed that the ocean looked blue and then you pointed to the sky and asked if they were the same color? that would be a better argument than just saying the sky is blue and leaving it at that.
We don't agree on the interpretation of revelation 20. So can you point to other scripture that mentions that satan has more than 1 little season? Especially, any non symbolic scripture from the gospels and epistles?
Revelation 1:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended (teleo 5055). After that he must be released for a little while.
Cognate: 5055 teléō (from 5056 /télos, "consummation, completion") – properly, to complete (consummate), i.e. finish (qualitatively) the necessary process – with the results "rolling-over" to the next level (phase) of consummation. See 5056 (telos).
I believe the 1,000 = the restoration of the Davidic monarchy through Christ. Thus "when the 1,000 years are ended" = its fulfillment/completion. Through Christ’s ministry, death, resurrection, ascension to heaven, and sending of the spirit, satan was cast bound and cast out.
It is upon this work that the gospel went to the nations. I believe the gospel to be stronger than satan's deceiving.
How so, and what non symbolic language from the epistles and gospels can you use to back up your interpretation of 2 little seasons?
No, it only draws from it as there was a literal 1,000 years from David to Christ.
The "1,000 years" = the restoration of the Davidic monarchy through Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit.
by the parabolic "1,000" equaling the restoration of the David monarchy, we then have:
1.) Satan bound and cast out leading to a "little season" as a result of the restoration of the Davidic monarchy
2.) the disciples judging Israel by the Spirit as a result of the restoration of the David monarchy
3.) God's people partaking in the 1st resurrection and being born again to be a royal priesthood as a result of the restoration of the Davidic monarchy.
All of these events can be found throughout the gospels and epistles, in non symbolic language, as occurring in the 1st century, thus showing us the interpretation of the "1,000 years".
I don't believe the parabolic "1,000 years" has anything to do with 70ad. I believe it has to do with the restoration of the Davidic monarchy through Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the Spirit, which resulted in:
1.) Satan bound and cast out leading to a "little season" as a result of the restoration of the Davidic monarchy
2.) the disciples judging Israel by the Spirit as a result of the restoration of the David monarchy
3.) God's people partaking in the 1st resurrection and being born again to be a royal priesthood as a result of the restoration of the Davidic monarchy.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but it appears you misunderstood me then. I apologize CG.
Scripure is clear that when satan is cast out of heaven at Christ's ascension, his time is short
Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Hey jg, I never said that. I said a 'revival.' A widespread one hopefully. But everyone that wears a kippah? I never said that.
at Christ's ascension
revelation 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Before Revelation 12:12 is fulfilled satan still has access to heaven in some sense or another. Therefore his binding wouldn't fit there. This is yet another reason I'm not Amil, because there is zero place for the thousand years to fit if Revelation 12:12 were to be meaning his little season after the thousand years. And it for sure wouldn't make sense that---because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(Revelation 12:12)---is meaning the thousand years. If that were true, what would be meaning the little season then?
Fair point. Yes, Rev 12:12 equates with Rev 20:3, so how does an Amil place the little season? I am an Amil of the 'historicist' variety, so I'll answer, as SG probably will too.
Amil Historicism depicts a church age where Christ and the Church is ruling and reigning together in a hostile world "until the 'Ancient of Days' comes and pronounces judgement in favor of the saints of the most high." (Daniel 6:22) This is symbolised as a 1000 years in the book of Revelation.
Throughout that era Satan would launch attacks against God's kingdom, because he knew his time was short. Some would be localised; some would be of greater or lesser intensity. Then, toward the end of that time he would be loosed to unleash his greatest attack ever. (Rev. 20:3) That is when the final battle would take place. Then the end will come.
Thanks for showing my typo. Fixed now.
Amils tend to be more figurative than premils. If you look at my 'Symbols in Revelation' thread you might get into the Amil brain a bit better.
This is the idealist view; jar presents the historicist view.Fair point. Yes, Rev 12:12 equates with Rev 20:3, so how does an Amil place the little season? I am an Amil of the 'historicist' variety, so I'll answer, as SG probably will too.
If Jesus already come (as preterism says), should we take the Lord's supper? "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." 1Cor 4:5 If we take it, we are saying He did not come, no?
I don't need to prove with other Scripture that satan has two little seasons if the Scriptures below are already proving that.
My main argument is as follows below. It doesn't really matter when one thinks the thousand years are, or whether they are even literal or not. None of that affects my argument one way or the other, at least not as far as I can tell.
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
There is only one 42 month period. Whether a literal 42 months or not, that doesn't matter. This 42 months mentioned here obviously can't take place during the thousand years when satan is in the pit. Therefore it has to be when satan is not bound. Scripture only shows two times when he is not bound---1) before the thousand years---2) after the thousand years during his little season.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What I have underlined above obviously means during the time of Revelation 13:5, that being when these were martyred. And since they are already martyred during the time of Revelation 13:5 before satan is ever loosed after the thousand years, this tells us Revelation 13:5 has zero to do with satan's little season after the thousand years.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What I have underlined in verse 17 shows that Revelation 13:5 happens during what I have underlined in verse 12. But since Revelation 20:4 shows that Revelation 13:5 can't happen during satan's little season after the thousand years, and that Revelation 12:17 shows that satan's short time in Revelation 12:12 includes Revelation 13:5, there is no way then without contradicting the texts involved, that satan's short time in Revelation 12:12 is meaning his little season after the thousand years in Revelation 20.
Revelation 20:4 shows that Revelation 13:5 is meaning before the thousand years. Revelation 13:5 can't be meaning before the thousand years and also after the thousand years. It can only be one or the other. And like I already indicated, Revelation 20:4 shows that Revelation 13:5 is meaning before the thousand years.
OK, I misunderstood your 'parabolic' meaning. I understand now but still don't agree. 'Far to convoluted for my simple brain, so we'll just have to beg to differ.
In the event sovereigngrace perhaps agrees with you there, I don't know if he does or not, but if he did where does that leave room for his 2000 year period he claims is meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20?
Before Revelation 12:12 is fulfilled satan still has access to heaven in some sense or another. Therefore his binding wouldn't fit there. This is yet another reason I'm not Amil, because there is zero place for the thousand years to fit if Revelation 12:12 were to be meaning his little season after the thousand years.
Why then continue pounding round pegs into square holes in order to try and get Amil to fit somehow? That position is never going to fit with some of the texts that are involved, such as Revelation 12, Revelation 13, and Revelation 20:4, to name a few.
I can support the belief that the 1,000 years = the restoration of the davidic monarchy WITH OUTSIDE, NON APOCALYPTIC SCRIPTURE, as it is through Christ's ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and sending of the spirit that the events of the "millennium" are fulfilled:
1.) Satan was bound and cast out (mark 3:27, John 12:31)
The 1,000 cannot fit, in your opinion, as you continue to take it as a linear timeline. However, if the 1,000 years simply points to the restoration of the Davidic monarchy and NOT linear time, then there is no issue.