Bill Wiese twenty three minutes in hell?

[DennisTate]

Do you believe that Bill Wiese described what he experienced to the very best of his ability?

Back in 1988 I would have thought that he was making this up because back then I was a firm believer in the Soul Sleep theory.

Since beginning to study near death experience accounts in 1990 I have changed my mind and I no longer believe in Soul Sleep.

Bill Wiese does an exceptional job of going through all the scriptures related to the subject of hell.

23 Minutes in Hell With Guest Speaker Bill Wiese

 

[thecolorsblend]

The human mind is a creative instrument. It’s possible that he’s mistaken, at the very least.

I tend to be a bit skeptical of all these supposed NDE’s where the patient saw Heaven, Hell or what have you.

 

[Albion]

I agree, "colorsblend." And it is worth noting that NDE's overwhelmingly deal with perceptions, experiences, etc. that 1) relate to THIS world 2) WHILE the person was dead or thought to be dead and 3) are verifiable.

The people who tell us what hell is like--and they do not agree with each other about that, which itself casts doubt upon their tales--are far fewer in number.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[SkyWriting]

Eternal means that the direction is not reversible.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

Luke 16:20-31 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [a]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[SkyWriting]

Luke 16
26 And [a]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.

"a great chasm fixed" No peeking either.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So was he resurrected? If so by whom?

 

[SkyWriting]

So was he resurrected? If so by whom?

"Bill?" Hard to say.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Since beginning to study near death experience accounts in 1990 I have changed my mind and I no longer believe in Soul Sleep.

Dennis

Might I suggest that you should have stayed with the Holy Bible for study material as it appears you have discounted a biblical truth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Do you believe that Bill Wiese described what he experienced to the very best of his ability?

Back in 1988 I would have thought that he was making this up because back then I was a firm believer in the Soul Sleep theory.

Since beginning to study near death experience accounts in 1990 I have changed my mind and I no longer believe in Soul Sleep.

Bill Wiese does an exceptional job of going through all the scriptures related to the subject of hell.

23 Minutes in Hell With Guest Speaker Bill Wiese

When someone ends up in hell, there is no return. It is quite possible that his experience was hallucinatory brought about by his fear of hell and in that state, he was imagining what it would be like if he actually went there. But it the experience turned him solidly to Christ, then there is a reason for it.

 

[DennisTate]

The human mind is a creative instrument. It’s possible that he’s mistaken, at the very least.

I tend to be a bit skeptical of all these supposed NDE’s where the patient saw Heaven, Hell or what have you.

So was Messiah Yeshua - Jesus merely somebody with a 'creative mind?"

Matthew 5

27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.

Dennis

Might I suggest that you should have stayed with the Holy Bible for study material as it appears you have discounted a biblical truth.

Or.... you might want to re-read and rethink Matthew 5?

 

[DennisTate]

When someone ends up in hell, there is no return. It is quite possible that his experience was hallucinatory brought about by his fear of hell and in that state, he was imagining what it would be like if he actually went there. But it the experience turned him solidly to Christ, then there is a reason for it.

That is one possibility..... but there is at least one other one ........ as I suggested in another discussion Ezekiel 37
may well not be confined to being a one time event and Bill Wiese may have seen himself.... from another time line that already occurred??????

I don't know if that is correct or not... that is above my Security Clearnance Level... but I was taught something close to this since I was a teenager by the Worldwide Church of God and it was one of their ideas that I found to be truly inspiring.

Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

So was Messiah Yeshua - Jesus merely somebody with a 'creative mind?"

Matthew 5

27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.





Or.... you might want to re-read and rethink Matthew 5?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the context of your o.p.
You are dangerously twist scripture to attempt to prove something untrue.
Eisegisis.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

What about the actual word of God up there that I shared? You just reject that?

 

[thecolorsblend]

The human mind is a creative instrument. It’s possible that he’s mistaken, at the very least.

I tend to be a bit skeptical of all these supposed NDE’s where the patient saw Heaven, Hell or what have you.

So was Messiah Yeshua - Jesus merely somebody with a 'creative mind?"

Perhaps a Venn diagram will help.

 

[DennisTate]

Perhaps a Venn diagram will help.
View attachment 270836

So... by this should I assume that you either believe in the Soul Sleep Theory or something pretty close to it?

If so I can understand your thinking that way considering that I did myself from 1972 to 1991.


This is the exact near death experience account that was quoted by Dr. Raymond Moody in one of this books that got me rethinking that doctrine.

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

 

[DennisTate]

Luke 16:20-31 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [a]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Good quotation..........
my answer at this time is that Daniel 12
has hidden meaning that could only be undersood in the latter days when medical science would get to the place where doctors can assist Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to bring somebody back even from actual death............ and flatlining may be actual death.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This running to and fro...... even includes going off into fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth dimensional space - time as Dr. George Ritchie did...... and then come back....... and through these meetings with people and reviewing their lives with them Messiah Yeshua - Jesus can fulfill this promise at a whole new level.


Jhn 16:25
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."



This is one of the reasons why five hundred years previous to the Latter Days... .the plan of God for all of us could not be considered perfectly.......... but now things are more clear and understandable than ever before.



Jer 23:20

The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

 

[DennisTate]

Dennis

Might I suggest that you should have stayed with the Holy Bible for study material as it appears you have discounted a biblical truth.

But we are not supposed to simply write off personal testimonies....... especially if they assist us to understand the scriptures better.

Rev 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[DennisTate]

"Bill?" Hard to say.

It is easier to say who resurrected Dr. George Ritchie because George reports being given a full fledged Life Review and reviewing our lives with us is a Covenant that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has made with all humans who died......... and I cannot imagine Jesus delegating this Life Review to Satan?????


Jhn 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The Book of Baruch in the Roman Catholic Bible is interesting:


Douay-Rheims Bible, Baruch Chapter 6

[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls"


The God of the Old Testament the Word - Logos promises to demand an account of our souls. George Ritchie was asked what he had done with his life? He replied that he had became an Eagle Scout. Jesus told him that he had done that to glorify himself.