True saving faith is proven by your repentance

[renniks]

He does categorize sin though. Unintentional and intentional. We aren't given an explanation exactly what it means to commit an unintentional sin but the day of atonement was specifically for that sort of sin.

All sin must be atoned for. It's obvious if there's a day of atonement for unintentional sins, that they are sins that must be atoned for. Some people on here want to categorize thier sins so they can pretend they don't have any, or pretend the ones they do have don't need atoned for. Because they believe Christians must be sinless to be saved. It gets really ridiculous.

 

[Donovan1972]

Repentance is not a condition to receive Eternal Life.

To receive Eternal Life a person believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from Old Testament prophecies and trust in Jesus (The Messiah) for the free gift of Jesus Eternal Life.

When a person believes in The Messiah for Eternal Life they immediately are born again (become spiritually alive) and become a child of God. Crossing over from death to Everlasting Life.

Never to cross back over to the spiritual death they received from Adam.

Perhaps you should get acquainted with your Bible. Repentance IS absolutely necessary for salvation!

Jesus preaching:

Mat 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luk 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk 13:5
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Apostles:

Mar 6:12
And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 8:22
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Jesus warnings in Revelation:

Rev 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Al Touthentop]

All sin must be atoned for. It's obvious if there's a day of atonement for unintentional sins, that they are sins that must be atoned for. Some people on here want to categorize thier sins so they can pretend they don't have any, or pretend the ones they do have don't need atoned for. Because they believe Christians must be sinless to be saved. It gets really ridiculous.

I agree with you about that I just meant to point out that those are the only categorizations of sin. Each category separates us from God and we have to deal with them somehow. That's why John's letter is so important. He wants us to know how to continually sanctify ourselves. Now I don't mean that we are cleansing ourselves but we are trusting in God through the process that John describes and I believe that it is necessary that we do so.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Gluttony is a sin. Proverbs 23:2 Romans 13:14, what is eating poorly but pleasing The flesh? 1st Corinthians 16:19 Titus 1:12
And that's just a few of them.

Eating at all is "pleasing the flesh." We could get really bizarre about things like this if we're not careful. Some people are not fat because of gluttony, some people have thyroid problems and other things which are not the result of sin or gluttony.

 

[renniks]

Eating at all is "pleasing the flesh." We could get really bizarre about things like this if we're not careful. Some people are not fat because of gluttony, some people have thyroid problems and other things which are not the result of sin or gluttony.

I know, but it is somewhat amusing that so many Christians that would never drink alcohol or smoke a cigarette think nothing of overeating constantly, not to mention not getting enough exercise.
I don't see how one is any better than the other, just as many people are dying from heart disease due to over eating as drinking to excess or smoking.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't believe in OSAS. I already covered this.

Then why are you quoting 1 John 1:8 as if you are ignorant of Scripture like someone believing in OSAS?

 

[CharismaticLady]

We aren't given an explanation exactly what it means to commit an unintentional sin but the day of atonement was specifically for that sort of sin.

What we do know is that willful sin is against God. Unintentional sin is against each other. That is why we need to forgive each other. If we do commit a willful sin against God, then we MUST repent and turn away from that sin. But it is not easy to commit a willful sin once we are born again. Some believe they are born again when they aren't. It is like calling yourself a Christian when you just believe in Jesus, but don't do what He says.

 

[renniks]

Then why are you quoting 1 John 1:8 as if you are ignorant of Scripture like someone believing in OSAS?

Umm. Because it's scripture?
I don't see anything " ignorant" about quoting the truth.

The only sin that disqualifies you from the kingdom is unbelief. Anything else can be forgiven.

 

[Al Touthentop]

What we do know is that willful sin is against God. Unintentional sin is against each other.

Please provide a scripture for that. Are you suggesting we can't unintentionally sin against God?

That is why we need to forgive each other. If we do commit a willful sin against God, then we MUST repent and turn away from that sin. But it is not easy to commit a willful sin once we are born again. Some believe they are born again when they aren't. It is like calling yourself a Christian when you just believe in Jesus, but don't do what He says.

We need to forgive each other because we're commanded to and for every sort of sin. A Christian who commits adultery, has to seek forgiveness from his wife and she needs to forgive him though this doesn't mean she has to stay married to him.

You still haven't explained how it is that a Christian cannot commit willful sin. A Christian is forbidden to do that, true. But he isn't remade in such a way that it is impossible to do so. You do understand that right?

 

[Al Touthentop]

Umm. Because it's scripture?
I don't see anything " ignorant" about quoting the truth.

The only sin that disqualifies you from the kingdom is unbelief. Anything else can be forgiven.

Even unbelief can be forgiven. There's only one unforgivable sin listed in the Bible.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Umm. Because it's scripture?
I don't see anything " ignorant" about quoting the truth.

The only sin that disqualifies you from the kingdom is unbelief. Anything else can be forgiven.

But 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are not about true Christians, but those who want Jesus as a Savior, but not their Lord. They still willfully sin. They are not cleansed from all unrighteousness; they are still sinners.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Please provide a scripture for that. Are you suggesting we can't unintentionally sin against God?




We need to forgive each other because we're commanded to and for every sort of sin. A Christian who commits adultery, has to seek forgiveness from his wife and she needs to forgive him though this doesn't mean she has to stay married to him.

You still haven't explained how it is that a Christian cannot commit willful sin. A Christian is forbidden to do that, true. But he isn't remade in such a way that it is impossible to do so. You do understand that right?

There is no way to break one of the Ten Commandments without knowing it. To break one of God's laws, is a willful sin against God.

Trespasses are unintentional sins we commit against each other; that is why we must forgive one another. Matthew 6:14-15

 

[CharismaticLady]

Please provide a scripture for that. Are you suggesting we can't unintentionally sin against God?




We need to forgive each other because we're commanded to and for every sort of sin. A Christian who commits adultery, has to seek forgiveness from his wife and she needs to forgive him though this doesn't mean she has to stay married to him.

You still haven't explained how it is that a Christian cannot commit willful sin. A Christian is forbidden to do that, true. But he isn't remade in such a way that it is impossible to do so. You do understand that right?

 

[CharismaticLady]

God's laws are written on our hearts. They are now part of our new nature and it is no longer in our nature to commit willful sin against God's laws. That is not to say we cannot grieve or quench the Spirit, and is why Paul told us to never do that.

 

[renniks]

Even unbelief can be forgiven. There's only one unforgivable sin listed in the Bible.

Temporary unbelief, yes. Not final rejection of the Spirit.

 

[renniks]

God's laws are written on our hearts. They are now part of our new nature and it is no longer in our nature to commit willful sin against God's laws. That is not to say we cannot grieve or quench the Spirit, and is why Paul told us to never do that.

Paul himself struggled with sin.

 

[ChetSinger]

Temporary unbelief, yes. Not final rejection of the Spirit.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I agree. Afaik final rejection represents an abandonment of the faith, as Jesus described in places such as John 15 ("continue in me") and Matthew 24 ("many will fall away").

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then why are you quoting 1 John 1:8 as if you are ignorant of Scripture like someone believing in OSAS?

I was just as shocked at one time when I discovered there are non-OSAS folk out there who believe that they can sin and still be saved, as well. The one denomination that I know of that believes this way are “Free Will Baptists.” They believe that a rejection of Christ and or a loss of believing in Him is the only thing that can cause a loss of salvation. They don’t believe abiding in unconfessed serious sins (like lusting, lying, or hating) is a loss of salvation (despite the Scriptures that say so).

There are also some Conditional Salvationists who appear to be for works and holy living as a part of salvation but they also don’t believe that you don’t lose salvation by abiding in unconfessed sin, either. David Servant is one such person who believes this way.

https://www.davidservant.com/articles/dan-corner-acid-test/

 

[Al Touthentop]

God's laws are written on our hearts. They are now part of our new nature and it is no longer in our nature to commit willful sin against God's laws. That is not to say we cannot grieve or quench the Spirit, and is why Paul told us to never do that.

Your nature is changed by your mind. We have examples of saved Christians in the New Testament willfully sinning. Obviously that prophecy doesn't mean what you think it means if you think that we are prevented from sinning by some supernatural endowment.

 

[Al Touthentop]

There is no way to break one of the Ten Commandments without knowing it. To break one of God's laws, is a willful sin against God.

Trespasses are unintentional sins we commit against each other; that is why we must forgive one another. Matthew 6:14-15

You're not answering the question. First of all, a trespass is itself a sin. It's just another word for it. There's nothing in the passage you quote that says he was teaching us to only forgive unintentional 'trespasses.'

But the question is, why do you think that we have some supernatural power - I assume that must be what you believe - not to intentionally sin and ONLY commit unintentional sins? Why would the Holy Spirit, if that is indeed the source of this power you assert exists, only prevent intentional sins and not unintentional?

And do you dismiss the intentional sins committed by saved Christians that are accounted for in the New Testament? Do you think that Peter, for instance, was never saved since he sinned after becoming saved?