The fatal flaw of Universalism

[BNR32FAN]

BNR: Since it is "quite clear", you should be able to tell us exactly what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. Just place it clearly before us at your earliest convenience.

I’m not exactly sure to be honest. I’ve told you that before, but what is clear is that this sin will not be forgiven and if at any time this sin is forgiven then this statement in Luke 12:10 is incorrect.

 

[Jord Simcha]

I’m not exactly sure to be honest. I’ve told you that before, but what is clear is that this sin will not be forgiven and if at any time this sin is forgiven then this statement in Luke 12:10 is incorrect.

Do you think Paul (Saul at the time) was among them who Jesus warned about it?

Since he says he is the chiefest of all sinners.

 

[BNR32FAN]

My interpretation of it that apparently it is worse to blaspheme the Holy Spirit than Jesus Himself.
I have no idea what God's motive is for it.

I do believe in universal reconciliation (because of the prophecies), so therefore I conclude that nobody will end up committing the unforgiveable, or that it doesn't mean it separates them who do from the love of God forever.

If no one will commit this sin then this message is useless.

 

[Charlie24]

BNR: Since it is "quite clear", you should be able to tell us exactly what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. Just place it clearly before us at your earliest convenience.

Paul gives us an example of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Heb. 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Only a saved person can commit this sin. This person will never seek to be forgiven, he is doomed. I can give you the complete story if you are interested. Involving exactly how and what these people were doing when they committed this sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you think Paul (Saul at the time) was among them who Jesus warned about it?

Since he says he is the chiefest of all sinners.

No I don’t think so. I don’t think Jesus would use someone to spread the gospel who would not be forgiven.

 

[martymonster]

Have you seen the long list of translators through the centuries who have translated the Hebrew and Greek scriptures into English. It's quite a list.

Did you know they are all wrong in leading us to believe there is a permanent hell for those who reject Christ, according to the Universalists.

A merciful and loving God cannot be just to send part of His creation to a place such as this while some others enjoy the presence of God forever.

Scripture such as these have been mistranslated by all these translators.

Matt. 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2Thes. 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Universalists have said they plan to translate their own Bible and make these corrections.

When they do they have sealed their fate. I would like to draw your attention to a very important verse of scripture.

Rev. 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What have the Universalists taken away from the words of the book of this prophecy, or from the entire Bible? They have taken away from any words such as eternal, everlasting, anything that presents a permanent place of punishment for those who have rejected Christ.

What did God say in Rev. 22:19 the punishment for such a thing will be?

Folks, this is as serious as false doctrine can get!

Truth doesn't rely on numbers. Usage determines meaning....period! Also, not all translators have translated things the same, so there's that.

 

[FineLinen]

I’m not exactly sure to be honest. I’ve told you that before, but what is clear is that this sin will not be forgiven and if at any time this sin is forgiven then this statement in Luke 12:10 is incorrect.

BNR: I will tell you exactly what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is lest you continue to not be "exactly sure."

Pay close attention with Charles by your side.

The simple version =

Calling good evil & evil good.

The more complex version=

Blasphemia derived from blapto and pheme.

To injure by way of stupid & sluggish behaviour.

The word "blasphemy" is practically confined to speech defamatory of the Divine Majesty.

 

[Charlie24]

BNR: I will tell you exactly what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is lest you continue to not be "exactly sure."

Pay close attention with Charles by your side.

The simple version =

Calling good evil & evil good.

The more complex version=

Blasphemia derived from blapto and pheme.

NO, it can't be!!!

FineLinen and I have agreed on something.

It can't be so!

 

[FineLinen]

NO, it can't be!!!

FineLinen and I have agreed on something.

It can't be so!

Charles: I must disclose why we are here on this thread of
yours. You have called good evil.

Folks, this is as serious as false doctrine can get!

 

[Charlie24]

Charles: I must disclose why we are here on this thread of
yours. You have called good evil.

Folks, this is as serious as false doctrine can get!

LOL, you're a funny guy FL.

 

[BNR32FAN]

BNR: I will tell you exactly what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is lest you continue to not be "exactly sure."

Pay close attention with Charles by your side.

The simple version =

Calling good evil & evil good.

The more complex version=

Blasphemia derived from blapto and pheme.

Well that’s certainly one hypothesis, but didn’t the Pharisees just do exactly that? So according to Luke 12:10 will those Pharisees be forgiven?

 

[FineLinen]

" Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained that all creation shall ultimately belong."

" He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God’s merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it-- the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one head in Him. And you…"

 

[martymonster]

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[steppinrazor]

Dear Charles: These "kids" are lost sinners. They have been born in sin without having an opportunity to prove how lost they are. In short, depraved from day 1 (the T of tulip).

There is no free pass

Yes there is, they go straight to heaven. Its not rocket science

 

[Oldmantook]

Have you seen the long list of translators through the centuries who have translated the Hebrew and Greek scriptures into English. It's quite a list.

Did you know they are all wrong in leading us to believe there is a permanent hell for those who reject Christ, according to the Universalists.

A merciful and loving God cannot be just to send part of His creation to a place such as this while some others enjoy the presence of God forever.

Scripture such as these have been mistranslated by all these translators.

Matt. 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2Thes. 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Universalists have said they plan to translate their own Bible and make these corrections.

When they do they have sealed their fate. I would like to draw your attention to a very important verse of scripture.

Rev. 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What have the Universalists taken away from the words of the book of this prophecy, or from the entire Bible? They have taken away from any words such as eternal, everlasting, anything that presents a permanent place of punishment for those who have rejected Christ.

What did God say in Rev. 22:19 the punishment for such a thing will be?

Folks, this is as serious as false doctrine can get!

Oh brother, he we go again. I'll just correct your misinformation by simply pointing out to you how your first citation (which BTW way is probably the most cited verse used against Universalism) is misinterpreted. It is claimed that since the latter clause in Matt 25:46 states that life is "eternal," it must be that punishment; i.e. spiritual death must also be "eternal." Such a reading though is a misinterpretation of the text for this passage read in its proper context refers to the sheep-goat judgment pertaining to the Millennial age - not eternity. When Jesus returns to earth at his 2nd coming, he judges those peoples/nations who are still alive at his return. The sheep are judged and allowed to enter in the the Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 years while the goats are also judged and cast into the lake of fire for the same period of time. A millennium though long, is a limited age of time - not forever/everlasting. Therefore the verse should properly read: And these shall go away to punishment age-during [millennium], but the righteous to life age-during [millennium].' (YLT).

 

[Oldmantook]

Well that’s certainly one hypothesis, but didn’t the Pharisees just do exactly that? So according to Luke 12:10 will those Pharisees be forgiven?

One cannot properly interpret Lk 12:10 without also taking into consideration its parallel passage in Matthew 12:32 where it states: Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
This verse further defines the verse in Luke by adding the caveat "either in the age or in the age to come." This age is the present church age. The age to come is the Millennial Age. Thus blasphemy of the Spirit is not forgivable in this present age or during the Millennial reign of Christ. It does not say forgiveness will never be available beyond the Millennium.

 

[Charlie24]

Oh brother, he we go again. I'll just correct your misinformation by simply pointing out to you how your first citation (which BTW way is probably the most cited verse used against Universalism) is misinterpreted. It is claimed that since the latter clause in Matt 25:46 states that life is "eternal," it must be that punishment; i.e. spiritual death must also be "eternal." Such a reading though is a misinterpretation of the text for this passage read in its proper context refers to the sheep-goat judgment pertaining to the Millennial age - not eternity. When Jesus returns to earth at his 2nd coming, he judges those peoples/nations who are still alive at his return. The sheep are judged and allowed to enter in the the Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 years while the goats are also judged and cast into the lake of fire for the same period of time. A millennium though long, is a limited age of time - not forever/everlasting. Therefore the verse should properly read: And these shall go away to punishment age-during [millennium], but the righteous to life age-during [millennium].' (YLT).

It comes down to the twisting of nouns and adjectives. Universalism is nothing more that Evolution, a theory.

 

[FineLinen]

Yes there is, they go straight to heaven. Its not rocket science

Dear Razor: Perhaps you could elaborate a mite?

1. How is the nature of sin dealt with on the way straight to heaven?

2. Why should Father not take all of us straight to heaven before we can prove what great sinners we are?

" Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained that all creation shall ultimately belong."

" He has made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God’s merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it-- the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one head in Him."

 

[FineLinen]

Well that’s certainly one hypothesis, but didn’t the Pharisees just do exactly that? So according to Luke 12:10 will those Pharisees be forgiven?

BNR: The fact is forgiveness of Father extends to His enemies 70 X 7 minimum.

You also should note that blasphemia derived from blapto and pheme
are age lasting (no forgiveness in this age or the coming age.)

God's forgiveness is bathed in change & transformation

 

[FineLinen]

BNR: The fact is forgiveness of Father extends to His enemies 70 X 7 minimum.

You also should note that blasphemia derived from blapto and pheme
are age lasting (no forgiveness is this age or the coming age.)

God's forgiveness is bathed in change & transformation

The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible

**by Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D.

Part 1

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d050101.htm 3

Part 2

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041201.htm 2