Question: What are the conditions for salvation?

[scruffydog]

It would be reductionist and heretical to boil it down to a number. I would definitely see it as a sin for me to do so. What if in doing so I misled someone?

It is through God's grace that we are saved. That gift is too great to make light of. We don't deserve it and could never live a spotless, Holy life alone. I haven't yet been able to do so. We are told to be Holy as He is Holy. We are also told to be perfect.

Paul believed but did not count the prize as already sure (Philippians). Peter said we are to live lives amomgst our neighbours beyond reproach. James made a good point about knowing who we are in Christ and living it out. About being doers of the word and not like the hearers only who look in the mirror and forget what they look like. He pointed out a paragraph or two later that if we just bid someone who is destitute goodwill but don't help them then its wrong. Which Jesus speaks of this same subject when He refers to the good that we do for those in need around us as being done for Him but speaks negatively of those who didn't.

So to boil it down to a small number would be sinful as it is ignoring scripture. However, I know that any works that I do are not to be boasted of, or proud about. I couldn't enumerate tasks like a checklist either because God grants understanding and capabilities and it really isn't about us really.

We are insignificant and it is a wonder that the Lord God Almighty does all He does in our lives. How we are guided, led and provided for. It is miraculous, awesome and a testiment to His omnipotence and in our limited capacity can not grasp how glorious He is. To advocate believing only as enough when Jesus said to people to go sin no more would be heresy.

I am saved through Christ alone and not of myself. I consider myself as very fortunate to believe but don't class that as something to be proud of but to be grateful to Him for.

So how would you evangelize someone?

I heard Billy Graham on the tv today say that being born again involved 4 things. Repentance, believing Christ, committing your life to Christ, and witnessing. Would you agree with that? Seems obvious tho that you wouldn't tell someone that if they believe in Jesus that they receive eternal life at that moment. Am I reading you right?

 

[Sam91]

So how would you evangelize someone?

I heard Billy Graham on the tv today say that being born again involved 4 things. Repentance, believing Christ, committing your life to Christ, and witnessing. Would you agree with that? Seems obvious tho that you wouldn't tell someone that if they believe in Jesus that they receive eternal life at that moment. Am I reading you right?

I probably don't evangelise enough. Most people seem to bring Jesus up to me after getting to know me. I tend to be asked why I believe etc at that point I tell them how it is impossible for me not to believe and tell them about some of the things Christ has done in my life. I probably fall short in the evangelising side of things, although my life is my witness. I do pray that God will give me the correct words.

When asked explicitly I tend to say about our sin condition and how God is Holy so our need for a Saviour. What Christ did and that if we believe in Him we will be saved. I say that the Bible is a great place to start to know more about Jesus and God, especially the Gospels (explaining which books these are) and to prayerfully read whichever one suits the best. I've given a few bibles away over the years but somehow I still have spare ones... they accumulate, I got given three just after my brother died. He came to know Christ out of the blue and was baptised 2 days before his death. Praise the Lord.

Unfortunately, most people just then speak of a desire to go to Church but don't accept my invite. I trust though that God may have planted a seed and will water it.

 

[Greengardener]

So everyone who has answered so far would say that believing Jesus Christ was not enough, no guarantee I would be saved.
Is that what I'm hearing?

What does believing Jesus look like to you, scruffydog? Is it really a singular item?

 

[scruffydog]

What does believing Jesus look like to you, scruffydog? Is it really a singular item?

Yes it is. Just as Jesus indicated many times when He talked about what was required for eternal life.

 

[Sam91]

Yes it is. Just as Jesus indicated many times when He talked about what was required for eternal life.

Which is?

 

[HTacianas]

So everyone who has answered so far would say that believing Jesus Christ was not enough, no guarantee I would be saved.
Is that what I'm hearing?

Jas 2:17 - Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Act 19:2 - he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

 

[scruffydog]

Which is?

Jn 6:47, 5:24, 3:18, 11:26
Believing Jesus is the conviction that what He says is true. If I believe in Him, according to what He said,then I have everlasting life. I will not be condemned. I will never die spiritually. I have passed from death to life.
As Abraham was fully convinced that what God had promised He was able to perform, so to I believe that what Jesus said is true for those who believe in Him He is also able to perform. Eternal life, according to Jesus is a present possession to those who believe. Not probationary life. Not temporary life. Eternal life that begins the moment you believe. No works. No promise of performance. No rituals. No hoops. No kidding.

 

[Sam91]

Jn 6:47, 5:24, 3:18, 11:26
Believing Jesus is the conviction that what He says is true. If I believe in Him, according to what He said,then I have everlasting life. I will not be condemned. I will never die spiritually. I have passed from death to life.
As Abraham was fully convinced that what God had promised He was able to perform, so to I believe that what Jesus said is true for those who believe in Him He is also able to perform. Eternal life, according to Jesus is a present possession to those who believe. Not probationary life. Not temporary life. Eternal life that begins the moment you believe. No works. No promise of performance. No rituals. No hoops. No kidding.

Do you obey Him in everything? Do you love others as yourself? Forget those..rather do you need to obey Him and love others as yourself?

 

[Sam91]

I need to got to sleep, its 3am here and I'm up soon for church. My next post was going to quote Jesus to you where He says if you love me you will obey me, and where He says to sin no more. I would have quoted 1 John and whatever else came to mind.

If you had said that we obey Him through the Spirit I would have just liked your post.

It was good talking with you. I appreciate it when the other person is kind and curteous in their replies as you have been. Good night.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There are conditions. Jesus met them all.

 

[scruffydog]

I need to got to sleep, its 3am here and I'm up soon for church. My next post was going to quote Jesus to you where He says if you love me you will obey me, and where He says to sin no more. I would have quoted 1 John and whatever else came to mind.

If you had said that we obey Him through the Spirit I would have just liked your post.

It was good talking with you. I appreciate it when the other person is kind and curteous in their replies as you have been. Good night.

Good talking with you as well. I'm not interested in getting into a war of proof texts with anyone, so I'll just lay out my belief briefly.
There is a difference between discipleship and salvation. John's Gospel is all about how to be saved. Salvation is absolutely free to those who believe Jesus Christ. Works have no place in the salvation of anyone. It's by grace alone thru faith alone in Jesus alone. No promise of performance, works, deeds, or whatever are even possible because no one is capable of being good enough or doing enough to wipe out their sin debt. God said, "Not of works...". He meant it. Faith alone, free grace. Period.
Have a good Sunday!

P.S. One more thing, before I forget. My understanding of grammar leads me to the conclusion that when Jesus tells a singular person to "sin no more", He is talking to that specific person and not to all persons throughout all human history. The context precludes extention to other individuals or future individuals.

 

[Jord Simcha]

How many, and what are they?

Having the Holy Spirit. After you've asked God for this you're good.

 

[Oldmantook]

Good talking with you as well. I'm not interested in getting into a war of proof texts with anyone, so I'll just lay out my belief briefly.
There is a difference between discipleship and salvation. John's Gospel is all about how to be saved. Salvation is absolutely free to those who believe Jesus Christ. Works have no place in the salvation of anyone. It's by grace alone thru faith alone in Jesus alone. No promise of performance, works, deeds, or whatever are even possible because no one is capable of being good enough or doing enough to wipe out their sin debt. God said, "Not of works...". He meant it. Faith alone, free grace. Period.
Have a good Sunday!

P.S. One more thing, before I forget. My understanding of grammar leads me to the conclusion that when Jesus tells a singular person to "sin no more", He is talking to that specific person and not to all persons throughout all human history. The context precludes extention to other individuals or future individuals.

Everyone quotes John 3:16 as the basis for salvation which requires belief. Most perceive it as a one-time moment of belief but the Greek verb tense is in the present tense making it "believing" in Him is having eternal life. Thus one must continue to believe or have faith. One can also renounce one's faith/belief and no longer possess salvation.
Unlike Jn 3:16 few quote Heb 5:9 which also states that obedience is a requirement for eternal life. The Greek verb for "obey" is also rendered in the present tense so that ongoing obedience or "obeying" is required. Not perfect sinlessness since no one is without sin but leading a lifestyle characterized by obedience is required. Works of obedience are the outward evidence of our inward faith. That is why James wrote that faith without works is dead and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Faith and works are two sides of the same coin. Can't have one without the other.

 

[scruffydog]

Everyone quotes John 3:16 as the basis for salvation which requires belief. Most perceive it as a one-time moment of belief but the Greek verb tense is in the present tense making it "believing" in Him is having eternal life. Thus one must continue to believe or have faith. One can also renounce one's faith/belief and no longer possess salvation.
Unlike Jn 3:16 few quote Heb 5:9 which also states that obedience is a requirement for eternal life. The Greek verb for "obey" is also rendered in the present tense so that ongoing obedience or "obeying" is required. Not perfect sinlessness since no one is without sin but leading a lifestyle characterized by obedience is required. Works of obedience are the outward evidence of our inward faith. That is why James wrote that faith without works is dead and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Faith and works are two sides of the same coin. Can't have one without the other.

That is absurd. It's present tense because Jesus is talking to a live person in the resent in context. When someone believes they are in a perpetual state of believing. They dont move in and out of it. And besides all that, they receive eternal life at that moment, apart from works. Otherwise he would have said probationary life.
But hey, go ahead with your good works. When you are good enough let us know so we can worship you since you'll have been the only one except Jesus. Good grief.

 

[Oldmantook]

That is absurd. It's present tense because Jesus is talking to a live person in the resent in context. When someone believes they are in a perpetual state of believing. They dont move in and out of it. And besides all that, they receive eternal life at that moment, apart from works. Otherwise he would have said probationary life.
But hey, go ahead with your good works. When you are good enough let us know so we can worship you since you'll have been the only one except Jesus. Good grief.

Why the harsh reply? You reply does not deserve an explanation since apparently you're not interested in one. Believe as you wish.

 

[scruffydog]

Why the harsh reply? You reply does not deserve an explanation since apparently you're not interested in one. Believe as you wish.

Because your argument is an impossibility. It has been debunked years ago. Apparently you are of the opinion that there are billions of conditions for salvation because every life involves billions of actions, any one of which, if wrong, could cause you to be lost. Plus, you need a greek guru to inderstand the gospel. Apparently the God who created language wasn't clear enough for you. You are lost because you have not believed what Jesus said. John 5:24. He who believes has already passed from death to life. But not according to your belief system. Good luck with that.
People, don't listen to people like this who close the door to salvation and lock it for others. Lordship salvationists do not want you to believe the simple good news of God's grace to all who believe. If you believe Jesus Christ you receive eternal life, which is everlasting and begins at that moment, and you are eternally secure. Read it for yourself. Don't take my word for it. It's very clear. John 5:24. Its not that difficult people!

 

[Oldmantook]

Because your argument is an impossibility. It has been debunked years ago. Apparently you are of the opinion that there are billions of conditions for salvation because every life involves billions of actions, any one of which, if wrong, could cause you to be lost. Plus, you need a greek guru to inderstand the gospel. Apparently the God who created language wasn't clear enough for you. You are lost because you have not believed what Jesus said. John 5:24. He who believes has already passed from death to life. But not according to your belief system. Good luck with that.
People, don't listen to people like this who close the door to salvation and lock it for others. Lordship salvationists do not want you to believe the simple good news of God's grace to all who believe. If you believe Jesus Christ you receive eternal life, which is everlasting and begins at that moment, and you are eternally secure. Read it for yourself. Don't take my word for it. It's very clear. John 5:24. Its not that difficult people!

I've read through the entire Bible a few times (need to do it more). I've also graduated from seminary with honors (I wasn't the brightest bulb in my class). I've also served as staff pastor but no longer do so. I only write this because you seem to think that your view is the one and only correct view. You are free to believe whatever you wish but there are countless verses which contradict your belief. Problems seems to me that you refuse to consider them but that is certainly your prerogative.

 

[scruffydog]

Your first three sentences are about what you have done. That tells me that you are all about your good works, not faith in Christ.
Why would God set up an impossibility for man to be saved? Jesus said salvation is by faith. Paul affirmed it. Not of works, lest any man (you included) should boast. Your boasting betrays your core belief. Can't you see that? What do you do with passages that say not of works? Cut them out of your bible?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your assurance is that the Spirit dwells in you enabling one to live that life of obedience.

The Bible does not give assurance on the basis of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Otherwise, why would Paul tell believers to NOT grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quench the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19)?

And why would he have to command believers to be filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and to walk by means of the Spirit (Gal 5:16) if all this is guaranteed?

Philippians says that He who began a good work in you will continue it to fruition.

This is different. This speaks to our salvation, not the believer's spiritual growth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

How exactly does one "bear fruit to earn eternal reward"?

Great question!

Only those believers who are in fellowship with the Lord, through confession of sin (1 Jn 1:9) and are filled with the Spirit, through submission to Him, will bear fruit. This is divine fruit, only when done in the power of the Spirit.

Jesus taught this principle in John 15:1-7. To 'abide in Him' is to be in fellowship with Him. That is the only way to bear fruit.

Anything and everything done in the power of oneself (their flesh) is considered as used menstrual rags (filthy rags - Isa 64:6). This is the state of believers who are grieving/quenching the Spirit (Eph 4:30, 1 Thess 5:19) and not in fellowship with the Lord (1 John 1).

Sadly, what I've posted here seems to be almost unheard of among evangelical believers. Yet, I've quoted Scripture that supports my post.