Repent of our Sins?

[Neogaia777]

I believe their was some deep "psychology" involved in what Jesus was doing/saying, etc, and that Jesus was (or had) a "masters of masters" in psychology, etc...

And we have got to try and figure out or discern the "psychology" behind what He was doing and saying...? That was the challenge to the early first-century Christians and their leaders and apostles, prophets, etc, like Paul, etc, and is still the challenge for us today, etc...

Maybe that's what He meant by His words never dying or perishing, etc, and therefore Him never perishing or dying, etc...

Either way, we have to discern or figure out the psychology behind it/them, etc...

I think that's how we get down to "Spirit" of it/them or behind them, etc...

And it/they (the words) applies to all of us, etc...

God Bless!

A lot of people either do, or wind up hating Jesus very much because of His either having or being a "master of masters" in psychology... they don't continue in the faith, or get very frustrated and quit and give up on Him, or fall away, or turn their backs on Him, or some even "turn on Him", due to "this", etc...

But some find His words to be eternal life also...?

Which are you...?

Then some just get Him and it/them (His words) flat out wrong all of the time also, fail to discern the "true Spirit behind them", etc, and leave a lot of damage and nothing but destruction in their wake, etc...

Which are you...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

A lot of people either do, or wind up hating Jesus very much because of His either having or being a "master of masters" in psychology... they don't continue in the faith, or get very frustrated and quit and give up on Him, or fall away, or turn their backs on Him, or some even "turn on Him", due to "this", etc...

But some find His words to be eternal life also...?

Which are you...?

Then some just get Him and it/them (His words) flat out wrong all of the time also, fail to discern the "true Spirit behind them", etc, and leave a lot of damage and nothing but destruction in their wake, etc...

Which are you...?

God Bless!

Many are "upset" with Him because He appears to have used His vast psychological knowledge to manipulate all of us and the determined course of the entire world (and all of us) up to this point, etc, to bring us all to this point, etc, and some think that's "all of what it was all only about only", etc, but that is not "all of it", etc, though it was part of it, etc...

But then, does not one who is God have the right to whatever He wishes with His own things, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Strong in Him]

the gospel of the kingdom was directed to the Jews only.

Yet Jesus taught, healed and forgave Gentiles, was worshipped by them before he was born, revealed himself as the Messiah to one of them and commended two others for their great faith.

The ascended Christ raised Paul to reach us gentiles after the nation rejected that gospel.

Like I said, Jesus visited, taught and healed Gentiles.

Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, but he also continued to teach, and proclaim the Gospel to, Jews.

the audience does matter because Jesus also gave other instructions that very few people in the church practice now.

If the church doesn't practice some of his words, it doesn't necessarily mean they were not for us; it means that the church, for whatever reason, doesn't practice his words.

Once you start saying that some of Jesus' words are not relevant to us, the next question is; which ones ARE and how do you tell the difference?

 

[Guojing]

Yet Jesus taught, healed and forgave Gentiles, was worshipped by them before he was born, revealed himself as the Messiah to one of them and commended two others for their great faith.



Like I said, Jesus visited, taught and healed Gentiles.

Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, but he also continued to teach, and proclaim the Gospel to, Jews.



If the church doesn't practice some of his words, it doesn't necessarily mean they were not for us; it means that the church, for whatever reason, doesn't practice his words.

Once you start saying that some of Jesus' words are not relevant to us, the next question is; which ones ARE and how do you tell the difference?

The instructions to the Jews in the 4 Gospels have now passed, because the Jewish nation have rejected the Gospel of the Kingdom.

It does not mean we cannot learn from them, all scripture is written FOR us, just like we can learn from Noah's faith even though none of us will regard the instructions by God for him to build an ark being directed TO us.

 

[Guojing]

Yet Jesus taught, healed and forgave Gentiles, was worshipped by them before he was born, revealed himself as the Messiah to one of them and commended two others for their great faith.

Doesn't matter, the Gospel of the Kingdom required strict obedience to the Law. Gentiles who want to be saved under the Law, had to become a Jew. (Exodus 12:48-49).

Jesus agreed to heal those 2 Gentiles, because they blessed or submitted to the Jews in one way or another, this was provided for under the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12:3). One build a synagogue for them, the other was willing to eat the crumbs from the Jewish children's bread.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Guojing

Jesus adding to the law

"psychology"...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

@Guojing

Jesus adding to the law

"psychology"...

God Bless!

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life", not the Law...

Might eventually lead to you keeping the Law, but that is not the main point, etc...

And if you think that is the main point, you might actually be missing the main point, etc...

Which is, put very simply, "relationship", etc...

Which "certain types of Law keeping" can actually keep you from, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life", not the Law...

Might eventually lead to you keeping the Law, but that is not the main point, etc...

And if you think that is the main point, you might actually be missing the main point, etc...

Which is, put very simply, "relationship", etc...

Which "certain types of Law keeping" can actually keep you from, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

The point being Jesus was sent to the Jews only during the 4 Gospels, and he made it clear that he was not there to abolish the Law (Matthew 5).

We are reading Paul into the 4 Gospels, for example the famous John 3:16, in order to form a doctrine that believing in Jesus as the Messiah was sufficient for salvation, but it was never stated.

The Jews had to believe in Jesus AND keep the Law. At no time did Jesus told the Jews that keeping the Law was unnecessary, and he even mentioned the necessity of Law keeping in several places.

 

[Neogaia777]

The point being Jesus was sent to the Jews only during the 4 Gospels, and he made it clear that he was not there to abolish the Law (Matthew 5).

We are reading Paul into the 4 Gospels, for example the famous John 3:16, in order to form a doctrine that believing in Jesus as the Messiah was sufficient for salvation, but it was never stated.

The Jews had to believe in Jesus AND keep the Law. At no time did Jesus told the Jews that keeping the Law was unnecessary, and he even mentioned the necessity of Law keeping in several places.

My point is He could have been using a bit of "reverse psychology" on the Jews maybe, etc...

And He did want His ministry to go to the Gentiles after He was gone, etc...

And for the Gentiles to apply His words or His teachings to themselves, etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, my point still stands that, "most ways of trying to keep and/or obey the Law" (fulfill them, etc) are not the "right way(s) to try and keep and or obey the Law", etc...

And can actually distance yourself in your relationship to or with God, etc, which is much more important to Him, etc...

And if you truly know the heart of God, you know this, etc... And you will know this truth about the Law as well, etc...

When Jesus said that He Himself was "the way, the truth, and the life", He did not mean the Law, etc... Or did not mean most of the atypical ways we try to follow and/or keep and/or obey it/them (The OT Law Covenant), which do not ever work anyway, etc... Only distances yourself from God, etc... Many say were never even ever designed to truly work anyway, etc... but were only meant to point us to Jesus, etc, make us realize our need of Him, etc... Need of a, and beyond just "a", "the" Savior, etc... To point us to Messiah, etc...

He Himself, and a deeply personal intimate relationship with Him is our only real true hope of ever becoming perfect, or perfectly obeying and/or keeping the Law ever, etc...

Without that relationship, that all the atypical ways of trying to keep and/or obey the Law will keep you from, there is never any kind of hope at all ever of ever truly following and/or obeying and/or keeping the Law ever, etc...

That's why relationship has to trump the Law, etc... Must come first, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Strong in Him]

Doesn't matter, the Gospel of the Kingdom required strict obedience to the Law.

Jesus came to fulfil the law and bring in, and seal, the NEW Covenant.
When Jesus, God, came into this world everything changed.
Jesus never said "you will only enter the Kingdom if you keep the Jewish law", and the early church taught against such false teachings. Gentiles did not need to be circumcised before they could be saved. Paul said that those who taught that circumcision was necessary should go and emasculate themselves, and that if someone insisted on keeping the law, then Christ's death was worthless.

 

[Guojing]

My point is He could have been using a bit of "reverse psychology" on the Jews maybe, etc...

And He did want His ministry to go to the Gentiles after He was gone, etc...

And for the Gentiles to apply His words or His teachings to themselves, etc...

Anyway,

Anyway, my point still stands that, "most ways of trying to keep and/or obey the Law" (fulfill them, etc) are not the "right way(s) to try and keep and or obey the Law", etc...

And can actually distance yourself in your relationship to or with God, etc, which is much more important to Him, etc...

And if you truly know the heart of God, you know this, etc... And you will know this truth about the Law as well, etc...

When Jesus said that He Himself was "the way, the truth, and the life", He did not mean the Law, etc... Or did not mean most of the atypical ways we try to follow and/or keep and/or obey it/them (The OT Law Covenant), which do not ever work anyway, etc... Only distances yourself from God, etc... Many say were never even ever designed to truly work anyway, etc... but were only meant to point us to Jesus, etc, make us realize our need of Him, etc... Need of a, and beyond just "a", "the" Savior, etc... To point us to Messiah, etc...

He Himself, and a deeply personal intimate relationship with Him is our only real true hope of ever becoming perfect, or perfectly obeying and/or keeping the Law ever, etc...

Without that relationship, that all the atypical ways of trying to keep and/or obey the Law will keep you from, there is never any kind of hope at all ever of ever truly following and/or obeying and/or keeping the Law ever, etc...

That's why relationship has to trump the Law, etc... Must come first, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

A lot of this confusion could be clarified by realizing that Jesus was sent to the Jews only in the 4 Gospels.

The Jews were under the Law of Moses, ever since Mount Sinai. The Law, and the prophets, were supposed to lead the Jews to believe that Jesus was indeed the Messiah they are waiting for. John 5:39

Confusion begins when we gentiles try to insert ourselves into the 4 Gospels, and try to mix Paul with the Law of Moses. Us gentiles were never given the Law of Moses, and until Paul was raised to reach us with the Gospel of Grace, we were without hope and without God (Ephesians 2:11-12)

 

[Guojing]

Jesus came to fulfil the law and bring in, and seal, the NEW Covenant.
When Jesus, God, came into this world everything changed.
Jesus never said "you will only enter the Kingdom if you keep the Jewish law", and the early church taught against such false teachings. Gentiles did not need to be circumcised before they could be saved. Paul said that those who taught that circumcision was necessary should go and emasculate themselves, and that if someone insisted on keeping the law, then Christ's death was worthless.

The new covenant could not have begun until Jesus died, which did not take place until the end of the 4 Gospels, so your point about "When Jesus, God, came into this world everything changed." is incorrect (Hebrews 9:16-17).

As for your other point about something Jesus never said, he said that literally in (Matthew 5:19-20)

 

[Neogaia777]

A lot of this confusion could be clarified by realizing that Jesus was sent to the Jews only in the 4 Gospels.

The Jews were under the Law of Moses, ever since Mount Sinai. The Law, and the prophets, were supposed to lead the Jews to believe that Jesus was indeed the Messiah they are waiting for. John 5:39

Confusion begins when we gentiles try to insert ourselves into the 4 Gospels, and try to mix Paul with the Law of Moses. Us gentiles were never given the Law of Moses, and until Paul was raised to reach us with the Gospel of Grace, we were without hope and without God (Ephesians 2:11-12)

He was only sent to the house of Israel or the Jews while He was here...

But, He did want His ministry to go to the Gentiles after He was gone, etc...

And for the Gentiles to apply His words or His teachings to themselves, etc...

And make them personal in their own lives, etc, to get or gain "relationship" with them, etc, in the hopes that, that "relationship", which must come first, might lead them into obeying and keeping the Law, etc...

"Eventually or in time" anyway, but, the "relationship must come first", etc... so that is not by only you, or is because of only you, or is in only you in your own strength only, etc, but is only in and by God's own strength only, and God doing it in you, through you, etc, by and because of that relationship only, etc...

If you want to see any kind of true success with the Law ever, that is the "only way", etc... The "only way" to ever have any kind of real true hope of ever truly doing so, etc...

All other ways fail, etc, and will actually do the opposite, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The new covenant could not have begun until Jesus died.

So we do not ever have to apply anything Jesus said to ourselves or in our own lives personally, ever...?

Not ever and not any of them, etc...?

He was "in the process of" instituting or establishing the New Covenant, etc, "publishing" it, etc, which means we do have to apply His words, or at the very least His intentions, to ourselves and in our own lives, etc...

And it is the intentions behind His words that are paramount or are the most important, etc...

It is the difference between the letter and it's Spirit, etc...

But it does help to know that He was, at first, and first and foremost, sent only to the Jews, at first, etc... but "does not mean" that none of His teachings or words do not apply to any of us afterwards, or after that, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

He was only sent to the house of Israel or the Jews while He was here...

But, He did want His ministry to go to the Gentiles after He was gone, etc...

And for the Gentiles to apply His words or His teachings to themselves, etc...

And make them personal in their own lives, etc, to get or gain "relationship" with them, etc, in the hopes that, that "relationship", which must come first, might lead them into obeying and keeping the Law, etc...

"Eventually or in time" anyway, but, the "relationship must come first", etc... so that is not by only you, or is because of only you, or is in only you in your own strength only, etc, but is only in and by God's own strength only, and God doing it in you, through you, etc, by and because of that relationship only, etc...

If you want to see any kind of true success with the Law ever, that is the "only way", etc... The "only way" to ever have any kind of real true hope of ever truly doing so, etc...

All other ways fail, etc, and will actually do the opposite, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

I think I have stated previously to you that, the Jews were given a one year extension after the Crucifixion, to accept the Gospel of the Kingdom.

It was significant that Peter only preached to the Jews until the point of the stoning of Stephen, and the Law of Moses continued to be kept by all the Jews who believe.

If you don't believe, we can examine the Acts account, Jews who believed that Jesus is their Messiah are expected to

1. Still keep the Law (Acts 10:28, Acts 21:20, Acts 22:12)
2. Share all their possessions (Acts 4:32, based on what Jesus taught them in Luke 12:33)
   
3. Face possible death by God for breaking the law (Acts 5:4-5)
4. Undergo water baptism (Acts 2:38)

Gentiles who believed, after the one year extension, are exempted from the Law (Acts 21:25).

 

[Neogaia777]

So we do not ever have to apply anything Jesus said to ourselves or in our own lives personally, ever...?

Not ever and not any of them, etc...?

He was "in the process of" instituting or establishing the New Covenant, etc, "publishing" it, etc, which means we do have to apply His words, or at the very least His intentions, to ourselves and in our own lives, etc...

And it is the intentions behind His words that are paramount or are the most important, etc...

It is the difference between the letter and it's Spirit, etc...

But it does help to know that He was, at first, and first and foremost, sent only to the Jews, at first, etc... but "does not mean" that none of His teachings or words do not apply to any of us afterwards, or after that, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

And it helps to know the specific details of His specific mission to the Jews that He was first sent to at first, etc...

Which I think was kind of in the nature or some "reverse psychology" with some of them at first, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

So we do not ever have to apply anything Jesus said to ourselves or in our own lives personally, ever...?

Not ever and not any of them, etc...?

He was "in the process of" instituting or establishing the New Covenant, etc, "publishing" it, etc, which means we do have to apply His words, or at the very least His intentions, to ourselves and in our own lives, etc...

And it is the intentions behind His words that are paramount or are the most important, etc...

It is the difference between the letter and it's Spirit, etc...

But it does help to know that He was, at first, and first and foremost, sent only to the Jews, at first, etc... but "does not mean" that none of His teachings or words do not apply to any of us afterwards, or after that, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

You do learn plenty from the the Old Testament, even books like Malachi and Haggai, even though you know the instructions there were almost only directed to the Jews correct?

Many of us grow up in churches that preach almost exclusively from the 4 Gospels, and there is even currently a group known as Red letter Christians.

So yes, it takes time for people to accept that the 4 gospels are as OT, as the rest of the OT. We can learn a lot from them, so long as we rightly divide the word (2 Timothy 2:15)

 

[Neogaia777]

I think I have stated previously to you that, the Jews were given a one year extension after the Crucifixion, to accept the Gospel of the Kingdom.

It was significant that Peter only preached to the Jews until the point of the stoning of Stephen, and the Law of Moses continued to be kept by all the Jews who believe.

If you don't believe, we can examine the Acts account, Jews who believed that Jesus is their Messiah are expected to

1. Still keep the Law (Acts 10:28, Acts 21:20, Acts 22:12)
2. Share all their possessions (Acts 4:32, based on what Jesus taught them in Luke 12:33)
   
3. Face possible death by God for breaking the law (Acts 5:4-5)
4. Undergo water baptism (Acts 2:38)

Gentiles who believed, after the one year extension, are exempted from the Law (Acts 21:25).

No one can, or ever has, ever, perfectly and continually kept, and continually and perfectly obeyed continually, and especially from birth, all of the Law of Moses perfectly, etc, except for Jesus Christ Himself only, etc...

And our only hope in ever doing so ever, will only start and/or begin by a personal relationship with Him first, but is not supposed to the number one primary main point, cause if it is you are missing the point, etc...

And "a bunch of other stuff" I've already said or stated, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

You do learn plenty from the the Old Testament, even books like Malachi and Haggai, even though you know the instructions there were almost only directed to the Jews correct?

Many of us grow up in churches that preach almost exclusively from the 4 Gospels, and there is even currently a group known as Red letter Christians.

So yes, it takes time for people to accept that the 4 gospels are as OT, as the rest of the OT. We can learn a lot from them, so long as we rightly divide the word (2 Timothy 2:15)

The four Gospels were the ending of the OT, OC, and the beginning of the New, yes... Jesus was doing both in the four gospels...

And I'm taught from the Bible, and the entire Bible, and not primarily a specific church or certain only one denomination only, of that I can assure you, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

No one can, or ever has, ever, perfectly and continually kept, and continually and perfectly obeyed continually, and especially from birth, all of the Law of Moses perfectly, etc, except for Jesus Christ Himself only, etc...

And our only hope in ever doing so ever, will only start and/or begin by a personal relationship with Him first, but is not supposed to the number one primary main point, cause if it is you are missing the point, etc...

And "a bunch of other stuff" I've already said or stated, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

You are speaking from the perspective of a Gentile, which is correct, but do you find it difficult to understand the perspective of a Jew, who was under the Law of Moses all the way, before and during the time of the 4 Gospels?