You did not chose Me, I chose you.

[Mark Quayle]

I never said they are according to my desires did I?



The scriptures I used confirm what you have said, so I agree. Keeping commandments is the same as keeping them in obedience.

But what I was pointing out is there are levels of abiding. And I mentioned the difference between an acquaintance and a marriage.

You quoted John 15:7 saying, "7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you." In another place, Christ says the reason some don't receive what they ask is because they "...ask amiss --that they may consume it on their lusts." Interesting contrast, lust vs desire. I reckon myself an incomplete person till I see him as he is, and sin will indeed no more plague me.

I hope you can see, then, why I agree with your parallel re acquaintance vs marriage. Not only "Without me, you can do nothing", but without him, we ARE nothing. What we are is only according to his use for us, the reason he made us. We are made for HIM. Not for ourselves.

 

[Mark Quayle]

if you follow s101 you are in trouble and confused.

I think I would enjoy a debate between Leighton Flowers and James White!

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Self righteousness is a horrible sin

 

[Mark Quayle]

Anyone first coming to Jesus will be cleansed of all sin no matter if it was a sin unto death or a sin not unto death. But the types of sin are still distinguishable, and after being cleansed of all sin by Jesus, and receiving the powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, a Christian can no longer commit a sin unto death, it isn't in his new nature; only a sin not unto death called a trespass. A trespass is unwittingly committed. IOW it is unintentional and not against God's laws as is a willful sin unto death, but against each other in slights and hurts. They are misunderstandings. God commands us to forgive one another trespasses against us; otherwise God will hold the trespass against the one who will not forgive. We are to love one another.

Hebrews 10:26-31 is talking about someone who has had all their sins forgiven, been sanctified, received the Holy Spirit and a new nature, and willfully goes against it and commits a sin against God's laws. They quenched the Spirit, and willfully committed a sin unto death. I believe in some cases that a person can come to their senses and repent if God allows him to. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; James 5:19-20

A mature Christians cannot commit a sin unto death, but their self control and love grows over time to where even trespasses are few and far between. This is why John says in 1 John 2:1 that it is possible to not sin at all, but if you do commit a sin not unto death Christ is our Advocate. (I say not unto death because no repentance is noted.) 1 John 1:7 shows someone walking in the Spirit, yet Jesus (as Advocate) is cleansing their trespasses.

The fact your conscience may not condemn you for a slight "trespass" is no measure of the "old man" still in you. Your rebellion may go much deeper than you realize. I think there are surely many things God has not brought to mind in any believer. "See if there be any wicked way in me." David says.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Self righteousness is a horrible sin

This was in reply to what?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I think I would enjoy a debate between Leighton Flowers and James White!

It already happened on Romans 9 debate.
Dr. White exegeted the passage, Leighton went into his storytime about man being response-able,lol he failed to attempt to exegete the passage and embarassed himself.

Listen and learn my friend;
The Romans 9 Debate vs Leighton Flowers

video also available....ps. many of us have exposed Leighton Flowers on baptist board, his name was Skandelon...we dealt with his errors on a daily basis.

The Romans Nine Debate - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com › watch
▶ 2:53:38
Oct 1, 2015 - Uploaded by Alpha & Omega Ministries
James White vs Leighton Flowers. ... The topic was supposed to involve both sides presenting a positive ...

Hijacking the Scriptures: The Romans 9 Debate ... - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com › watch
▶ 1:00:23
Jan 14, 2016 - Uploaded by Alpha & Omega Ministries
Last May Dr. White engaged Prof. Leighton Flowers in debating the text of Romans chapter nine. Professor ...

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

This was in reply to what?

Charismatic lady is boasting she is sinless,lol

 

[CharismaticLady]

In another place, Christ says the reason some don't receive what they ask is because they "...ask amiss --that they may consume it on their lusts."

Yes, they do, unfortunately. I don't pray that way, and all mine are answered.

I reckon myself an incomplete person till I see him as he is, and sin will indeed no more plague me.

Is that a typo? I don't know what you are talking about.

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

2 Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The Greek tense necessarily implies continuous action. It does not say that we never sin. It would be more accurate to say we do not live in sin, or we do not continue to sin, than to say we never sin. Meanwhile we have plenty more scripture to indicate that the struggle against sin within is far from over.

I think you have to go through some pretty tough calisthentics to come up with explaining the bit of self-important decisions that you give in to, though you know you shouldn't, without calling it sin, nevermind the ones God hasn't even bothered you about yet.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Is that a typo? I don't know what you are talking about.

Mark said: "I reckon myself an incomplete person till I see him as he is, and sin will indeed no more plague me."
↑
CLady said: Is that a typo? I don't know what you are talking about.

The conversation was in reference to Sanctification, as I remember. The context concerned Abiding in Him. I am saying there, that when I am in Heaven it will finally be seen that I am a real, complete, person BECAUSE I am in him. Perhaps it can be said truly that even now we are, at least to whatever degree we are in him, But it is for him we are made, and our dignity and worth are not intrinsic to ourselves, but IN HIM. We are not, in our "natural" fallen state, his fellow living beings.

Even the angels will never be this honored, to be of such a humbled status to the degree we are apart from him, then raised to be one with him.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It already happened on Romans 9 debate.
Dr. White exegeted the passage, Leighton went into his storytime about man being response-able,lol he failed to attempt to exegete the passage and embarassed himself.

Listen and learn my friend;
The Romans 9 Debate vs Leighton Flowers

video also available....ps. many of us have exposed Leighton Flowers on baptist board, his name was Skandelon...we dealt with his errors on a daily basis.

The Romans Nine Debate - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com › watch
▶ 2:53:38
Oct 1, 2015 - Uploaded by Alpha & Omega Ministries
James White vs Leighton Flowers. ... The topic was supposed to involve both sides presenting a positive ...

Hijacking the Scriptures: The Romans 9 Debate ... - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com › watch
▶ 1:00:23
Jan 14, 2016 - Uploaded by Alpha & Omega Ministries
Last May Dr. White engaged Prof. Leighton Flowers in debating the text of Romans chapter nine. Professor ...

thanks. I wish I could think as clearly / unconfusedly as James White.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Charismatic lady is boasting she is sinless,lol

I think she is confused about it, not understanding the degree of horror belonging to any trespass. Has to do some "interpreting" to come up with a system that works. I hope her her lack of confidence concerning what she espouses is what causes her vehemence.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Greek tense necessarily implies continuous action. It does not say that we never sin. It would be more accurate to say we do not live in sin, or we do not continue to sin, than to say we never sin. Meanwhile we have plenty more scripture to indicate that the struggle against sin within is far from over.

I think you have to go through some pretty tough calisthentics to come up with explaining the bit of self-important decisions that you give in to, though you know you shouldn't, without calling it sin, nevermind the ones God hasn't even bothered you about yet.

I would have agreed with you the first 30 years of my going to church. I was a slave to sin. But on Feb. 9, 1977 I repented and was baptized in the Spirit and the power over sin engulfed me. I know first hand what it means to be dead to sins of lawlessness. When Jesus takes away our sin that means he gives us a nature that doesn't want to sin willfully against God.

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

That doesn't make us completely sinless and perfect yet. But we still can remain sinless in the sight of God. There are still unintentional sins that we can still commit until we mature out of them. They are called trespasses, and are the only type of sins in the Lord's Prayer, because willful sins unto death have already been taken away from us. While walking in the Spirit, as long as you forgive others the trespasses they commit against you, your own trespasses are automatically forgiven by the Father. We must always forgive trespasses (sins not unto death). 1 John 1:9

 

[CharismaticLady]

Mark said: "I reckon myself an incomplete person till I see him as he is, and sin will indeed no more plague me."
↑
CLady said: Is that a typo? I don't know what you are talking about.

The conversation was in reference to Sanctification, as I remember. The context concerned Abiding in Him. I am saying there, that when I am in Heaven it will finally be seen that I am a real, complete, person BECAUSE I am in him. Perhaps it can be said truly that even now we are, at least to whatever degree we are in him, But it is for him we are made, and our dignity and worth are not intrinsic to ourselves, but IN HIM. We are not, in our "natural" fallen state, his fellow living beings.

Even the angels will never be this honored, to be of such a humbled status to the degree we are apart from him, then raised to be one with him.

Were we talking about sanctification? I don't think so. Weren't we talking about abiding in Jesus???

As I recall Calvinists believe sanctification is a life long process of overcoming sin. Nope. That has already been done by Jesus.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would have agreed with you the first 30 years of my going to church. I was a slave to sin. But on Feb. 9, 1977 I repented and was baptized in the Spirit and the power over sin engulfed me. I know first hand what it means to be dead to sins of lawlessness. When Jesus takes away our sin that means he gives us a nature that doesn't want to sin willfully against God.

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

That doesn't make us completely sinless and perfect yet. But we still can remain sinless in the sight of God. There are still unintentional sins that we can still commit until we mature out of them. They are called trespasses, and are the only type of sins in the Lord's Prayer, because willful sins unto death have already been taken away from us. While walking in the Spirit, as long as you forgive others the trespasses they commit against you, your own trespasses are automatically forgiven by the Father. We must always forgive trespasses (sins not unto death). 1 John 1:9

The regenerated are indeed sinless in the sight of God, because they are already forgiven --not because they no longer sin, even with sins of outright rebellion.

But your separation of intentional vs unintentional is generated by the need to make your system work. I don't see the Bible referring to one as intentional and therefore deadly, and another as unintentional except as through ignorance of levitical law, back in the Old Testament. You have what seems to me a strange mixture of Bible and various religious traditions.

Let me ask you this -- how are unintentional sins any different really, according to scripture. It says that if we transgress the law in one respect, we have transgressed the whole law. If it is sin at all, it is still sin, and worthy of death.

Confessions and repentance seem to me a much higher road than excusing something as mere small trespass.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The regenerated are indeed sinless in the sight of God, because they are already forgiven --not because they no longer sin, even with sins of outright rebellion.

Oh, man! How much more in error could you be??? Don't you know what Jude 1:4 says? Because that is what he was speaking against!

But your separation of intentional vs unintentional is generated by the need to make your system work. I don't see the Bible referring to one as intentional and therefore deadly, and another as unintentional except as through ignorance of levitical law, back in the Old Testament. You have what seems to me a strange mixture of Bible and various religious traditions.

Don't you know that the old testament was our schoolmaster. It taught us about how God thinks. And yes, it is there that we are taught the difference between unintentional trespasses unwittingly committed, and rebellious sins against God's Ten Commandments. Did you know that there were no sacrifices that covered the sins of someone who broke those laws - they put them to DEATH. But there was sacrifice for unintentional sins.

I don't know what religious "traditions" I hold. Your tradition of we are forgiven on day one of past, present and future sins is not even in the Bible. That is where you got that tradition. We are only forgiven of our past sins when we come to Christ, and He then gives us the power to no longer commit willful sins of lawlessness.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@Mark Quayle

Good night. I hope you weren't offended that I had to laugh at your conversation right in front of me with O. You two don't know me at all, and what I teach goes right over your heads. It appears you haven't a clue what I'm even saying, because it is from scripture you think you must twist to relate to.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Charismatic lady is boasting she is sinless,lol

I can't decided whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Not all sin is the same. I believe we are to at least overcome grievous sin that leads to spiritual death in order to have eternal life. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Have you done this?

Titus 2:11-12 says that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Does your version of grace teach that?

 

[Hammster]

With trespasses against me. Sometimes I don't forgive as quickly as I should, but then realize to stay sinless, I must forgive, so from my heart, I forgive.

So then you are a wicked sinner like the rest of us, and have sin that needs mortification.

See, if you sin, like you just admitted to, then you can’t stay sinless because you never were sinless. When you don’t forgive, it’s because of pride. You buy into Satan’s greatest lie, “Did God really say?”

Have you grown in grace and truth through the years? I’m sure you have. But it would behoove you to say that you sin less, but not that you are sinless, because that’s not true.