Sexual immorality between married couples.

[Paidiske]

However, although it is your norm, should Christians speak as if these things should be assumed normal? Have our consciouses been so damaged that we treat such vile sin so flippantly?

When we talk about marriage preparation, we need to be realistic about what the couples in front of us actually need to deal with. It's not flippant to acknowledge that people come to marriage with a past, including a sexual history; that they might need to talk about things like pornography or having been abused. Better to deal with all of that before they walk down the aisle, then have them discover early in the marriage that there are big problems and they have no tools to deal with them.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

When we talk about marriage preparation, we need to be realistic about what the couples in front of us actually need to deal with. It's not flippant to acknowledge that people come to marriage with a past, including a sexual history; that they might need to talk about things like pornography or having been abused. Better to deal with all of that before they walk down the aisle, then have them discover early in the marriage that there are big problems and they have no tools to deal with them.

The post I took issue with *assumed* sexual sin and advised discussing with your future spouse which types of sexual (fetishes) activities you expect to be part of your marriage.

That's how this started.

Assuming such a thing and speaking about it so flippantly is what I took issue with.

We ought to feel regret for our sin. The sin that violated of God's law, nailed His Son to a cross, and robbed our spouse of what he/she deserved.

These things are taken far too lightly in our speech around here.

Yes. I understand the reality of sexual sin. I'm a sexual sinner. I was not a virgin when I married — I should have been.

 

[Paidiske]

I understood that post simply to be saying that any issues of sex or sexuality ought to be discussed before marriage; that conversation will be different for every couple, but I certainly agree that it ought to be had.

 

[Sir Robbins]

technically, "sodomy" is still a sin, even if married if I'm not mistaken...

 

[createdtoworship]

technically, "sodomy" is still a sin, even if married if I'm not mistaken...

Yes homosexual sex would still be a sin. No worse than your typical adultery (sex with with someone your not married to.) Though. Churches tend to think homosexuality is a worst sin than other sins. It's not. All sin is evil to God.

 

[Sir Robbins]

Yes homosexual sex would still be a sin. No worse than your typical adultery (sex with with someone your not married to.) Though. Churches tend to think homosexuality is a worst sin than other sins. It's not. All sin is evil to God.

sodomy refers to non-vaginal intercourse. That means anal and oral (even for straight couples) is a sin. That was my point.

 

[PloverWing]

technically, "sodomy" is still a sin, even if married if I'm not mistaken...

sodomy refers to non-vaginal intercourse. That means anal and oral (even for straight couples) is a sin. That was my point.

Non-reproductive forms of intercourse are forbidden in the Catholic tradition but are considered permissible in many of the Protestant traditions. I don't know what the Orthodox view is.

(Strictly speaking, I believe there are some nuances in the Catholic view, but I'm trying not to be too graphic here. )

 

[createdtoworship]

duplicate

 

[createdtoworship]

Non-reproductive forms of intercourse are forbidden in the Catholic tradition but are considered permissible in many of the Protestant traditions. I don't know what the Orthodox view is.

(Strictly speaking, I believe there are some nuances in the Catholic view, but I'm trying not to be too graphic here. )

sodomy refers to non-vaginal intercourse. That means anal and oral (even for straight couples) is a sin. That was my point.

I just did a word search for sodomy in the Bible, it does not show up. What does show up is sodom, and sodomite. So sodomy would be having sex in a similiar way that they did in sodom. Technically speaking we only have one example of a sexual encounter with sodom and gomorrah, and it mentions in the text that men came to lots house and desired to know the two men (angels) who came to his house, and to "know them carnally." It does not mention what type of sex, anal, oral or whatever. But because they were men on men sexual encounters (unwanted sexual advances), it was rape. But the rape was not the issue. As rape always exists in every city. What God was specifically condemning the city of sodom and gomorrah was homosexuality. This manifested in male on male sex. But even if they didn't commit "what you call sodomy" which is an unbiblical term, homosexuality in general was why sodom was destroyed, not the manifestation of it. And again no where are we told that anal sex is forbidden, or oral sex. But I do not recommend anal sex as those body parts can deteriorate as that is not the natural function of those body parts. So to be good stewards of our body we would be best to "use the natural use of the woman." Or vaginal sex. I hope this was not too descriptive. But I agree mostly with what you are saying, fetishes are typically immoral in more ways than one and vaginal sex is a beautiful thing and it need not be added to or modified. That is to make God a bad designer. God designed the sex organs perfectly, it's just that one or both partners are over stimulated via pornography or a violent sexual history or other fetish has corrupted "the natural use of the woman." So again in this situation I recommend a married couple to fast from sex for a period of months until the burning desire returns. This will heal the corrupt nature of the over stimulation. I do not recommend self gratification of any sense, accept in the marriage bed, and no porn. All these over stimulate or stimulate in a fashion that is "not the normal use of the woman."

 

[Sir Robbins]

And again no where are we told that anal sex is forbidden, or oral sex. But I do not recommend anal sex as those body parts can deteriorate as that is not the natural function of those body parts.

If anal wasn't forbidden then homosexuality would be ok but it's not. We are also reminded not to "spill our seed" which would happen in the event of the previous 2 mentioned forms of sex.

 

[PloverWing]

I just did a word search for sodomy in the Bible, it does not show up. What does show up is sodom, and sodomite. So sodomy would be having sex in a similiar way that they did in sodom.

Sir Robbins was talking about the meaning of the English word "sodomy". That word is derived from the Genesis story of Sodom, but it is not identical to what is described in Genesis. The Genesis story describes the (attempted) gang rape of visiting strangers. All Christian traditions -- Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and the various splinter groups -- condemn gang rape, regardless of the gender of the attackers or the victim.

 

[Sir Robbins]

Sir Robbins was talking about the meaning of the English word "sodomy". That word is derived from the Genesis story of Sodom, but it is not identical to what is described in Genesis. The Genesis story describes the (attempted) gang rape of visiting strangers. All Christian traditions -- Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and the various splinter groups -- condemn gang rape, regardless of the gender of the attackers or the victim.

there are several English translations of foreign words from the bible that may have a different translation from that of the biblical form.

Virgin in the biblical sense was defined as being a "young" woman... I can't recall one time where a man was called a virgin in the bible or for that matter an older, unmarried woman. If someone does recall it, please direct me....

Our world says a virgin is someone who has not had intercourse.... quite different from the biblical texts but yes, I was referring to the English translation of sodomy.

 

[createdtoworship]

If anal wasn't forbidden then homosexuality would be ok but it's not. We are also reminded not to "spill our seed" which would happen in the event of the previous 2 mentioned forms of sex.

Well seed would not be spilled in forms of anal sex. And it's not the anal sex that makes homosexuality wrong, it the fact that you are lusting for someone not your spouse. And it happens to be someone of the same sex, which is like a second sin. Anal sex would be the third, although a lesser sin. Simply because it's unhealthy. And for homosexual men at least, anal sex has led to a lessening of male homosexual life span expectancy, due to aids due to homosexual sex alone. I can quote peer review but it is quite detailed and graphic. But yeah, anal sex is unhealthy. And even more so among uncommited partners. It just goes to show that God knows what He is saying in the scriptures.

 

[Sir Robbins]

Well seed would not be spilled in forms of anal sex. And it's not the anal sex that makes homosexuality wrong, it the fact that you are lusting for someone not your spouse. And it happens to be someone of the same sex, which is like a second sin. Anal sex would be the third, although a lesser sin. Simply because it's unhealthy. And for homosexual men at least, anal sex has led to a lessening of male homosexual life span expectancy, due to aids due to homosexual sex alone. I can quote peer review but it is quite detailed and graphic. But yeah, anal sex is unhealthy. And even more so among uncommited partners. It just goes to show that God knows what He is saying in the scriptures.

it would "technically be spilled" since the seed would not be going towards it's natural destination for fertilization. Of course this is my view. I understand others have seen it differently. All sins are equal before God so I personally don't condemn one person for being worse than another nor would I judge as I have my own sins and battles. It's become a more challenging world for us....

 

[Billy UK]

technically, "sodomy" is still a sin, even if married if I'm not mistaken...

I agree and sodomy even in judicial law includes oral sex because. God did not intend the mouth to be used in such a way therefore rightful its always been classified as an unnatural sex act and I believe sin whether married or not.

From a standard dictionary

sodomy


sod·omy | \ ˈsä-də-mē \
Definition of sodomy


: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex

 

[createdtoworship]

it would "technically be spilled" since the seed would not be going towards it's natural destination for fertilization. Of course this is my view. I understand others have seen it differently. All sins are equal before God so I personally don't condemn one person for being worse than another nor would I judge as I have my own sins and battles. It's become a more challenging world for us....

The context of spilling seed I believe was not in the case of self gratification or anal sex but in the case of a man pulling out as to not fulfill his God given role to become caretaker to a relatives wife.and provide heirs to that family as to keep the Jewish lineage uncorrupted. In the biblical case the man who had married his brothers wife had relations then pulled out and spilled seed signifying defial of God given commands to provide.an heir. But I could be wrong. It's an interesting study. I think the Bible forbids self gratification on other grounds that of lust in general.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Lord help us.

 

[createdtoworship]

I saw this article, sometimes brain damage can cause too much sexual desire, or not enough, frontal lobe controls sexuality, if someone has damaged the frontal lobe, this can happen:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...in-trauma-can-cause-compulsive-sexual-desires