Sexual immorality between married couples.

[Sketcher]

yes I agree, things that don't follow the fruits of the spirit, "gentleness, self control"

"Self-control" is a dodgy term to use in this context, though a measure of it is still necessary.

 

[bèlla]

@Alistair_Wonderland

I’m in agreement with your sentiments. I would never permit an outsider to micromanage my lovemaking or open it up to them.

Given the varied stances on the subject, it should be openly addressed before marriage. Many sexual hangups surface when the knot is tied. It’s best to lay everything on the table.

~Bella

 

[createdtoworship]

@Alistair_Wonderland

I’m in agreement with your sentiments. I would never permit an outsider to micromanage my lovemaking or open it up to them.

Given the varied stances on the subject, it should be openly addressed before marriage. Many sexual hangups surface when the knot is tied. It’s best to lay everything on the table.

~Bella

I wouldn't call God or his word an "outsider" but that is just me. Besides I think if God created sex, as I think we can all agree He did, I would think He would know the best tips on it.

 

[createdtoworship]

"Self-control" is a dodgy term to use in this context, though a measure of it is still necessary.

Sir the very best sexual books etc. and literature speak of self control. An no I don't recommend them. I am just saying there are whole volumes of issues of literature and books on how a man can gain self control in the bedroom. God offers his fruits of the spirit free of charge. Self control is discipline. And the more you discipline your body and spirit, the more of it you have. The Bible says "if a man asks for bread, will you give him a stone? If a person knows how to give good gifts, why would your heavenly father not give good gifts to those who ask." I am chopping that verse horribly from memory. In short, when God says there are fruits of the spirit, they are good for all aspects of life. Not just in the pew.

 

[bèlla]

I wouldn't call God or his word an "outsider" but that is just me. Besides I think if God created sex, as I think we can all agree He did, I would think He would know the best tips on it.

I wasn’t referencing God in that statement. I was speaking of man.

~Bella

 

[createdtoworship]

I wasn’t referencing God in that statement. I was speaking of man.

~Bella

Oh, sorry. I didn't see that part of the post. I thought it was talking about this entire dialogue as being intrusive or something, and we are just sharing God's word really.

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

While I agree lust is acceptable towards one's spouse. I would disagree with you on another point....
you mention aggression in a marriage bed. And how would that fit biblically speaking. 2 Tim 3:16 mentions that the bible is good for all sorts of life matters. There is nothing that we go through or do that is not addressed in the instruction manual. If the Bible says "be gentle." How is using aggression, obedient to that? Any by the way forbidding aggression does not in any way tempt myself for example who have crucified that affection and desire. While yes, there is temptation initially when there is a rule put in place (but temptation is not always there). There is a learning curve associated with it. And there is temptation during that learning phase. But what I noticed is if you can typically set a habit for about three months, usually that habit gets burned in your long term memory. And at that point the verse that says "resist the devil and he will flee" James 4:7 becomes true. But again one must resolve in his or her mind to love as Jesus loved. That means romance, gentleness, self sacrifice. Helping your mate, making the bed, doing dishes, doing laundry. Love and self sacrifice do way more for passion in the marital bed than carnal aggression ever could.

Carnal aggression is not to stimulate passion, it is an expression of the fervor of one's passion. And it is not in hatred, but rather in love. Think of it as when two guys who are best friends punch each other in the shoulder or wrestle or whatever masculine men do. (I wouldn't know, lol.)

As for learning to obey a rule... I think you're one of the lucky ones if you don't experience temptation to break a rule once you've heard of it. I have established habits over multiple years, and experienced temptation with upholding them still. Part of the reason I like girly cartoons is that there is a little bit of social rebellion in there, while not going against God's rules. If I can break a rule and still obey God, I am almost certain to break that rule. Some of us are born with rebellious spirits, which can be bad if unchecked, but when used to rebel against man's laws in order to follow God, it can cause us to weed out what man says from what God says. Peter was quite the rebel; literally, he was a political rebel and a zealot. But I digress. All I am saying is don't assume that because something is not a struggle for you that it is not a struggle for others.

As for gentleness, it is gentleness of spirit which matters, a deep and caring love for your spouse. Self-sacrifice and romance are essential parts of a marriage. But so is passion. Gentleness in heart and spirit does not necessarily mean physical gentleness. If your wife has different tastes than other women, then it is your God-appointed duty to give of yourself to her. Perhaps God gave you your wife because he knew you both were not into such vigorous activity, and therefore were better suited to one another. Likewise, I could never marry someone who wasn't willing to experience the freedom God gave us with me, because neither of us would be able to properly satisfy the other's desires. In both cases, it is not one's own desires that one should seek, but the desires of the other.

For the sake of clarity, I am not condoning any act that is harmful. Spanking is one thing, (I read an article stating the desire for spanking often comes from childhood neglect, and that the act of spanking has become synonymous to the person with an act of caring and nurturing rather than punishment,) but I do not condone anything that intentionally causes any lasting harm beyond a few rug burns.

As a final thought, two things: one, gentleness is in the spirit more than in the actions, and two, self-sacrifice may mean trying things you are a bit uncomfortable with. (Provided that there is not crystal-clear Biblical proof against said things.) I don't go for the spiker heels and padded handcuffs myself; admittedly they seem a bit weird to me, though I do not see them as sinful or harmful if used with respect and love as sort of play-toys. But if my wife wanted to try them, it would be my duty before God to be willing to give it a try. For "The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife." 1 Corinthians 7:4. Self-sacrifice sometimes manifests itself in a way we may not expect, and gentleness of heart sometimes means being sensitive to your spouse's desire for more vigorous activity. There is no love lost between childhood friends who play rough when playing in the yard, or older friends playing competitive sports. It's not anger or hate, it's just fun and playful. Why should the bedroom be any different?

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

@Alistair_Wonderland

I’m in agreement with your sentiments. I would never permit an outsider to micromanage my lovemaking or open it up to them.

Given the varied stances on the subject, it should be openly addressed before marriage. Many sexual hangups surface when the knot is tied. It’s best to lay everything on the table.

~Bella

Very true. The conversation may be awkward...... but it's very important to establish these things before marriage. I actually had a relative who didn't know what sex even was until her wedding night. That led to some awkward conversations: "You want to do what?!" Hence the importance to have an open discussion about such things before marriage. I know some people may say "that could cause temptation!", but honestly, if you can't talk about this stuff seriously and respectfully before marriage, you sure as heck aren't going to be able to after it.

Random thought: why do people act like they can tell us what to do with our spouses? I mean, how do they expect to find out if we listened or not? It's not like they have any way of knowing for sure. Heh. Maybe when someone tells me how to love my future wife, I should just respond "You should not give in to voyeuristic temptations!" and watch their reaction.

 

[createdtoworship]

Carnal aggression is not to stimulate passion, it is an expression of the fervor of one's passion. And it is not in hatred, but rather in love. Think of it as when two guys who are best friends punch each other in the shoulder or wrestle or whatever masculine men do. (I wouldn't know, lol.)

As for learning to obey a rule... I think you're one of the lucky ones if you don't experience temptation to break a rule once you've heard of it. I have established habits over multiple years, and experienced temptation with upholding them still. Part of the reason I like girly cartoons is that there is a little bit of social rebellion in there, while not going against God's rules. If I can break a rule and still obey God, I am almost certain to break that rule. Some of us are born with rebellious spirits, which can be bad if unchecked, but when used to rebel against man's laws in order to follow God, it can cause us to weed out what man says from what God says. Peter was quite the rebel; literally, he was a political rebel and a zealot. But I digress. All I am saying is don't assume that because something is not a struggle for you that it is not a struggle for others.

As for gentleness, it is gentleness of spirit which matters, a deep and caring love for your spouse. Self-sacrifice and romance are essential parts of a marriage. But so is passion. Gentleness in heart and spirit does not necessarily mean physical gentleness. If your wife has different tastes than other women, then it is your God-appointed duty to give of yourself to her. Perhaps God gave you your wife because he knew you both were not into such vigorous activity, and therefore were better suited to one another. Likewise, I could never marry someone who wasn't willing to experience the freedom God gave us with me, because neither of us would be able to properly satisfy the other's desires. In both cases, it is not one's own desires that one should seek, but the desires of the other.

For the sake of clarity, I am not condoning any act that is harmful. Spanking is one thing, (I read an article stating the desire for spanking often comes from childhood neglect, and that the act of spanking has become synonymous to the person with an act of caring and nurturing rather than punishment,) but I do not condone anything that intentionally causes any lasting harm beyond a few rug burns.

As a final thought, two things: one, gentleness is in the spirit more than in the actions, and two, self-sacrifice may mean trying things you are a bit uncomfortable with. (Provided that there is not crystal-clear Biblical proof against said things.) I don't go for the spiker heels and padded handcuffs myself; admittedly they seem a bit weird to me, though I do not see them as sinful or harmful if used with respect and love as sort of play-toys. But if my wife wanted to try them, it would be my duty before God to be willing to give it a try. For "The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife." 1 Corinthians 7:4. Self-sacrifice sometimes manifests itself in a way we may not expect, and gentleness of heart sometimes means being sensitive to your spouse's desire for more vigorous activity. There is no love lost between childhood friends who play rough when playing in the yard, or older friends playing competitive sports. It's not anger or hate, it's just fun and playful. Why should the bedroom be any different?

Sorry I don't think men punching each other in the shoulder and carnal violent fetishishes are the same.

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

Sorry I don't think men punching each other in the shoulder and carnal violent fetishishes are the same.

I think the difficulty here is that you and I may be picturing two very different things. Allow me to clarify; I'm thinking of activities that, if not in a sexual light, would be enjoyed between friends who have rather aggressive tenancies, like my example of guy friends fighting in a playful manner. I'm rather naive about BDSM and all that (thankfully), so I don't know how bad things can get in that department, but I wholeheartedly reject anything degrading or harmful. Some things may fall into a sort of grey area in this zone, such as spanking, and I think that's up to the couple to decide if they feel that is degrading or not, but some things, like hurting and bruising your partner, are universally wrong. Love may manifest in different ways, but it never desires to harm.

 

[createdtoworship]

I think the difficulty here is that you and I may be picturing two very different things. Allow me to clarify; I'm thinking of activities that, if not in a sexual light, would be enjoyed between friends who have rather aggressive tenancies, like my example of guy friends fighting in a playful manner. I'm rather naive about BDSM and all that (thankfully), so I don't know how bad things can get in that department, but I wholeheartedly reject anything degrading or harmful. Some things may fall into a sort of grey area in this zone, such as spanking, and I think that's up to the couple to decide if they feel that is degrading or not, but some things, like hurting and bruising your partner, are universally wrong. Love may manifest in different ways, but it never desires to harm.

Sorry this conversation is way over my pay grade. Typically if a fetish has to do with stuff against core biblical principle I would refrain. Gentleness, kindness etc. I would not know about spanking. Let me side track for a bit, for context.....Pornography unfortunately has a dimininishing effect on the male sexuality ( with real people). They soon live in fantasy with imaginary people. Porn and other fantasy only gets darker and darker the more you use it. So in order to spice it up with their real relationships...they put in chains and wierd ritual and odd behavior like spanking. If this is anyone here, I recommend simply quiting the porn and fasting from sex for several months or as long as it takes to reset your spirit. Again this is for married couples of course. God designed plain old sex as quite the perfect act. But sometimes over stimulation can convolute it. So reducing the porn and over stimulation should reset someone but it could take years or until visual stimulation is forgotten from memory. (BTW I am not saying this stuff directly to you by any sense, Christ may have protected you or freed you from any or all the above. He has freed me from porn five years ago praise Jesus. Staying as naive as possible is always the best bet.) Jesus never rips us off. If you ever date someone into porn, I suggest finding someone else. There is baggage there that you don't want. ( at first I thought you were a girl, so I was uncomfortable a bit. But I guess everyone needs this conversation.)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Is it possible for married couples to be sexually immoral? I'm not talking about things like swinging or adultery, as those are obviously immoral, but married couples who are faithful to one another.

Yes.

Perversions (distortions of what God-designed) are sinful, no matter what.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

@Alistair_Wonderland

I’m in agreement with your sentiments. I would never permit an outsider to micromanage my lovemaking or open it up to them.

Given the varied stances on the subject, it should be openly addressed before marriage. Many sexual hangups surface when the knot is tied. It’s best to lay everything on the table.

~Bella

Two people just getting married who haven't committed fornication (which should be all Christians) shouldn't have a shopping list of sexual fetishes or even preferences to discuss.

 

[bèlla]

Two people just getting married who haven't committed fornication (which should be all Christians) shouldn't have a shopping list of sexual fetishes or even preferences to discuss.

And if that isn’t the case they’ll address the subject accordingly. There are many should’s in life. But maturity teaches to address what stands before us. Not the reality we wish we had.

~Bella

 

[jimmyjimmy]

And if that isn’t the case they’ll address the subject accordingly. There are many should’s in life. But maturity teaches to address what stands before us. Not the reality we wish we had.

~Bella

Some things are too shameful to speak of, but you speak of them without even a blush, apparently, and as if sexual promiscuity were the norm.

 

[createdtoworship]

Don't let people guilt shame you, men. If you like sex (as a married man). I know that is not fully the topic of this thread, but I just thought I would post this....

 

[bèlla]

Some things are too shameful to speak of, but you speak of them without even a blush, apparently, and as if sexual promiscuity were the norm.

I don’t think you can ascertain that through a 4 sentence response. The shameful things you’re referencing are done by others and to them as well. Thankfully, God equips counselors and members of the body to handle the indelicate sins you’re bothered by. You are clearly meant for another role.

Promiscuity happens. So does abuse. God is the remedy for both. Your sensibilities are immaterial to the gospel or redemption.

~Bella

 

[Steve97]

Is it possible for married couples to be sexually immoral? I'm not talking about things like swinging or adultery, as those are obviously immoral, but married couples who are faithful to one another.

Interesting question but not a new one. You need to be specific regarding your question and define what you means by "immoral".

 

[Paidiske]

Some things are too shameful to speak of, but you speak of them without even a blush, apparently, and as if sexual promiscuity were the norm.

Given that for just about every couple I've married (I think there was one exception), they've been living together before marriage, I'd say statistically it is the norm.

@LaBèlla is right. Denying reality doesn't actually help anyone.

More on topic, I think @David Neos is right. Anything in which you treat your spouse as an object for your gratification, rather than as a person to be loved, is problematic.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Given that for just about every couple I've married (I think there was one exception), they've been living together before marriage, I'd say statistically it is the norm.

I am not in the least surprised to hear that people coming to a Liberal, Progressive gathering place which ordains women have no regard for God's law or sexual purity. That's not what such places are known for.

However, although it is your norm, should Christians speak as if these things should be assumed normal? Have our consciouses been so damaged that we treat such vile sin so flippantly?

What is normal is what God has declared normal. All else is perversion.